Train Order Signal wiring?

[peteski]

That will work as you expect.  If the selection of which control switch is active only done before the ops session then this seems like a good (and simple) solution.

[Cajonpassfan]

Thanks Pete, glad to have it validated. I do like simple.
Now to figure out the best way to attach the four cam switches per @DKS suggestion.it's very tight in there.
Otto

[Cajonpassfan]

Well it seems @DKS design using the NC switches works! Thank you David!
I built a simple styrene box-like extension around the mechanism and epoxied the four switches in the corners, two per motor. I was a bit nervous about precise placement of the switches, but David is right, the long actuating strips allow a good amount of adjustment, see pics below. Only thing I had to do is extend the actuating cams a bit.

At this point I'm just testing the signals with 3V battery power, and really like the slow movement of the blades.
Thank you again,
Otto

[Dirk Jan Blikkendaal]

Otto,

Nice solution and happy it works! Learned a lot from this thread........... electronics is not my cup of tea...... thanks to all for the input.

regards, Dirk Jan Blikkendaal / ATSF N Scale Models

[Cajonpassfan]

Thanks, Dirk. Your signal is exquisite, and it's pretty cool to watch it light up and operate. But I could only have done it thanks to the advice of some very talented guys here.

Okay, changing gears, one last question (I think) for anyone: the layout is DCC (NCE) and I use NCE Switch-its and -eights to throw most of my turnouts remotely using radio cabs. It occurred to me that it may be useful to replace the hardwired "dispatcher" controls (shown in the dashed line box below) with a remotely operated stationary decoder.

Does anyone make a (reasonably priced) accessory/stationary decoder with SPDT functionality? Stall motor decoders like the Switch-it reverse output polarity and others have On/Off functions for lights and such. Ideally, a single decoder with TWO SPDT outputs (one per blade)? Again, I'd like to keep it simple....
Thanks in advance,
Otto

[peteski]

Thanks, Dirk. Your signal is exquisite, and it's pretty cool to watch it light up and operate. But I could only have done it thanks to the advice of some very talented guys here.

Okay, changing gears, one last question (I think) for anyone: the layout is DCC (NCE) and I use NCE Switch-its and -eights to throw most of my turnouts remotely using radio cabs. It occurred to me that it may be useful to replace the hardwired "dispatcher" controls (shown in the dashed line box below) with a remotely operated stationary decoder.

Does anyone make a (reasonably priced) accessory/stationary decoder with SPDT functionality? Stall motor decoders like the Switch-it reverse output polarity and others have On/Off functions for lights and such. Ideally, a single decoder with TWO SPDT outputs (one per blade)? Again, I'd like to keep it simple....
Thanks in advance,
Otto

Have the function decoder's output activate a small old-fashion DPDT relay. Problem solved!  Don't forget the reverse bias diode in parallel with the relay coil to prevent BEMF from damaging the decoder.

[Cajonpassfan]

Problem solved! Thanks @peteski. Lol, things are so easy for you electronics geeks...not so much for the rest of us, and. Certainly not for me. And your last sentence could have just as easily been written in Polish. Huh?

Let's see if I got it straight (and please be patient with me).

So okay, there appears to be no ready made decoder with a built-in "either/or" SPDT functionality.
Thus a relay or some other device driven by "on/off" decoder outputs is necessary (I was hoping to avoid that).
What kind of "old fashion relay" would be used to do that; it needs to remain in either position for hours at a time...is that okay?

Finally, could you please be more specific about the "reverse-bias" BEMF comment?
Thank you, Otto

[Point353]

So okay, there appears to be no ready made decoder with a built-in "either/or" SPDT functionality.
Thus a relay or some other device driven by "on/off" decoder outputs is necessary (I was hoping to avoid that).
What kind of "old fashion relay" would be used to do that; it needs to remain in either position for hours at a time...is that okay?

https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202446835-Switch-IT-MK2

https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201576969-Dual-Relay-Board

[peteski]

LOL Otto, in time we'll make you an electronics expert!  And I thought you would welcome an old-school relay design. 

Here's a good explanation of the diode in parallel with the relay: http://davidbridgen.com/coil%20diode.htm . The transistor in the circuit is the function output on a decoder and the coil is the coil (electromagnet) inside the relay.

Relays are designed to be continuous duty, so a properly chosen relay can remain energized for as long as needed.  Let me know what decoded you will use, what voltage it will operate on, and I'll help you to choose a relay.  The NCE board (with 2 SPDT relays) IMO is needlessly complicated (and probably more expensive than buying a small DPDT relay and a diode.  I could probably just send you a relay and a diode from my vast stash of components (although most of my relays have 5 Volt coils).

EDIT: I also see that you posted a question on the NCE group.io, and  the responses that followed.

[Point353]

The NCE board (with 2 SPDT relays) IMO is needlessly complicated (and probably more expensive than buying a small DPDT relay and a diode.  I could probably just send you a relay and a diode from my vast stash of components (although most of my relays have 5 Volt coils).

Nevertheless, the NCE products provide an off-the-shelf, plug-and-play solution that meets the OP's needs, without requiring any electronics expertise to implement - nor someone offering to supply free parts.

[peteski]

Nevertheless, the NCE products provide an off-the-shelf, plug-and-play solution that meets the OP's needs, without requiring any electronics expertise to implement - nor someone offering to supply free parts.

Plug-and-play? Well, taking one DPDT relay and single diode, and hooking them into Otto's circuit (with instructions and diagrams provided here for free) is just as easy as that NCE circuit. Not any more difficult than assembling his original circuit with toggle switches.  Just saying  . . .

Otto asks, and we provide answers - isn't that what TRW is all about?

[Cajonpassfan]

LOL Otto, in time we'll make you an electronics expert!  And I thought you would welcome an old-school relay design. 

Here's a good explanation of the diode in parallel with the relay: http://davidbridgen.com/coil%20diode.htm . The transistor in the circuit is the function output on a decoder and the coil is the coil (electromagnet) inside the relay.

Relays are designed to be continuous duty, so a properly chosen relay can remain energized for as long as needed.  Let me know what decoded you will use, what voltage it will operate on, and I'll help you to choose a relay.  The NCE board (with 2 SPDT relays) IMO is needlessly complicated (and probably more expensive than buying a small DPDT relay and a diode.  I could probably just send you a relay and a diode from my vast stash of components (although most of my relays have 5 Volt coils).

EDIT: I also see that you posted a question on the NCE group.io, and  the responses that followed.

Thanks much Pete, I do truly value your advice, and may yet come back do more.  I don't know though that you will ever make an electronics expert out of me...it's just not that interesting to me, and I'd rather spend my "train time" doing things I do find interesting (and there are way too many of those)

So it looks like the NCE double relay board is my answer...for $20 retail and a Switch-it I have, I'm good. Thanks though for your offer to send me the parts, that is very nice of you.
Regards, Otto

[Cajonpassfan]

Plug-and-play? Well, taking one DPDT relay and single diode, and hooking them into Otto's circuit (with instructions and diagrams provided here for free) is just as easy as that NCE circuit. Not any more difficult than assembling his original circuit with toggle switches.  Just saying  . . .

Otto asks, and we provide answers - isn't that what TRW is all about?

Yes, and it's appreciated. And I'm am learning, slowly, as we stumble along😎

[Cajonpassfan]

https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202446835-Switch-IT-MK2

https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201576969-Dual-Relay-Board

Thanks for the link, very helpful!
Otto K.

[peteski]

Thanks much Pete, I do truly value your advice, and may yet come back do more.  I don't know though that you will ever make an electronics expert out of me...it's just not that interesting to me, and I'd rather spend my "train time" doing things I do find interesting (and there are way too many of those)

So it looks like the NCE double relay board is my answer...for $20 retail and a Switch-it I have, I'm good. Thanks though for your offer to send me the parts, that is very nice of you.
Regards, Otto

You're welcome.  For comparison, my solution would have looked like this:



This particular relay has the diode built-in, so external diode is not even required.  Only 8 leads to hook up.  I bought this relay from a surplus vendor for couple of dollars. If purchased from an electronic parts distributor, this relay would likely cost about $5.