Looking for info on commercially available, automated turntables...

[Mark5]

Peco now offers a motorized turntable.  For those classic Peco non powered turntables there was https://www.locomotech.com/

I am certain that the PECO is nice, but it comes in just under 80' in N scale.

https://peco-uk.com/products/turntable-kit?_pos=2&_sid=d14ac16ab&_ss=r

[wm3798]

For the quid they ask for it, Walthers should have a more reliable kit, or at least parts to back it up.
I loved mine when it worked, it was a first gen and looked terrific.  I can't recall what the circumstances were that caused it to seize up, but something went bad in the controller, which was hardwired to the pit.  Some sort of modular plug would have been nice, but nope.  Permanent tether, so the only way to correct the problem, or send it in for a repair (which they don't do) was to rip the turntable out of the ground, disrupt all the fan tracks, and live with a hole in your layout.
If the problem was with the drive, that was housed in the bridge, and was easily removed.
If it was in the electronics, you have to destroy your layout to get to the problem, for which, as has been noted elsewhere in these pages, there is zero manufacturer support.

With a modular plug I could have at least tested the various circuits to see which one was shot and figure out a work-around.  To do that, you basically have to destroy the factory connections.

I don't know what other upgrades they gave the later releases, but if they haven't changed how the wiring is connected, be advised that you may be purchasing a $300 Frisbee.

Lee

[alhoop]

For the quid they ask for it, Walthers should have a more reliable kit, or at least parts to back it up.


With a modular plug I could have at least tested the various circuits to see which one was shot and figure out a work-around.  To do that, you basically have to destroy the factory connections.

I don't know what other upgrades they gave the later releases, but if they haven't changed how the wiring is connected, be advised that you may be purchasing a $300 Frisbee.

Lee

Lee:
It's a throw away item just like a CVT automobile transmission.
It's also a closed system and other than changing a motor or cracked gears there would be no various circuits to test unless
you have thouands of dollars worth of very sophisticated test equipment on hand like the developers had. Even then you
would not have access to the software and no way to download it. I know , that's why I developed open loop track selection
( N-Scale magazine - Nov/Dec 2010)
$300 is a bargain(heck I just paid >$30 for just one tall N-Scale tree) if you can find one, mine has been soldiering on for 10 years with no maintenance other than replacing cracked gears and they are still available on the Bay.
BTW I still have your bridge but haven't needed it yet.
Regards
Al Hooper

[mmagliaro]

Electronics?  Honestly, how hard can this be.  All it has to do is be a solid slow-speed motor with good gears and bearings so everything turns steady and true.  FORGET the electronics.  I'm tellin' ya, the auto indexing thing is not what it's cracked up to be.  I really thought it would be back when I built up my Bowser.  I was sure that if your turntable couldn't stop on its own at each track, it would be frustrating to use.  But when I switched to just having a 2-speed motor drive,  doing it by eye was so much better!  You flip a switch, let the table run until it gets close, then flip to low-speed and it creep-creep-creeps,  and you can easily make it stop right on the nut every time.

[alhoop]

Electronics?  Honestly, how hard can this be.

You're right Max - but why not regress further and just install a hand crank since you're going
to eyeball it That way no electricity - real green.TIC
Al Hooper

[peteski]

Electronics?  Honestly, how hard can this be.  All it has to do is be a solid slow-speed motor with good gears and bearings so everything turns steady and true.  FORGET the electronics.  I'm tellin' ya, the auto indexing thing is not what it's cracked up to be.  I really thought it would be back when I built up my Bowser.  I was sure that if your turntable couldn't stop on its own at each track, it would be frustrating to use.  But when I switched to just having a 2-speed motor drive,  doing it by eye was so much better!  You flip a switch, let the table run until it gets close, then flip to low-speed and it creep-creep-creeps,  and you can easily make it stop right on the nut every time.

No kidding Max!  After all, the 1:1 turntables didn't  have any fancy auto-indexing, right?  They guy sitting inside the booth on the bridge was the "automatic indexer". 

[TimF]

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Made by Fleischmann/Germany

[randgust]

I've wondered if the best system would be one that better replicates how a real turntable is operated - which is manual/eyeball with a 'lock-in' feature when it's finally aligned.   You run the thing with either the electric motor or air motor, get it aligned by eye, and then drop in a steel plate between the rails to lock the rails into position before you run on or off the table.  And the ones I've been around always have some kind of speed control for final adjustment, not just an on/off feature, it gets 'slowed down' on final approach.

You need a really good, powerful low-rpm gearbox for that, but Pololu has a lot of them, seriously, and they aren't expensive, up to 1000:1 reduction   
https://www.pololu.com/category/51/pololu-metal-gearmotors
That's what I used for my oil rig module.   So the bridge also needs some kind of 'lock', and the ring needs slots, or holes or something, to hold the bridge in alignment after it's eyeballed in.

You can have both a reversing switch and a rheostat on the motor drive to control speed, and some manner of solenoid powered through the bridge (in addition to powering the rails) by some kind of electrical wiper system to hold the alignment in position during equipment movement.  I think you'd have to have something more than just the gear drive to hold it in position; half a rail width off and you're going to derail.   You could do it from the ring out instead of the bridge in if you don't mind a nest of locks instead of one on the bridge, heck, that could be manual rods with a bunch of linkages, same principle.

If I had space I always wanted to do the turntable at Winslow, but I don't have room.     Just observing that the real operations never quite beat this thing without being able to eyeball it either.

I think automatic indexing systems are cool, but just asking for a level of unnecessary complexity.

This is a pretty cool video, from an overhead look that looks just like a layout.   Note the eyeballing and walking it on and off the table.

[DKS]

So the bridge also needs some kind of 'lock', and the ring needs slots, or holes or something, to hold the bridge in alignment after it's eyeballed in.

Actually, as long as the gear drive doesn't have a lot of slop, you don't need any kind of locking mechanism at all--that just adds unnecessary complexity. I've helped a friend build two turntables, and they both work just like how @mmagliaro describes his: they have simple two-speed directional controls. Use the slow speed to line it up, and that's it.

[reinhardtjh]

Electronics?  Honestly, how hard can this be.  All it has to do is be a solid slow-speed motor with good gears and bearings so everything turns steady and true.  FORGET the electronics. 

No kidding Max!  After all, the 1:1 turntables didn't  have any fancy auto-indexing, right?  They guy sitting inside the booth on the bridge was the "automatic indexer". 

Actually, as long as the gear drive doesn't have a lot of slop, you don't need any kind of locking mechanism at all--that just adds unnecessary complexity. I've helped a friend build two turntables, and they both work just like how @mmagliaro describes his: they have simple two-speed directional controls. Use the slow speed to line it up, and that's it.

[DKS]

One other nice thing about a non-indexed TT is that you can locate any number of fan tracks at any arbitrary angle(s) anywhere around the pit to suit your particular needs. You're not locked into whatever the mechanism affords--which may not work with the roundhouse/facilities you're modeling.

[jdcolombo]

Actually, as long as the gear drive doesn't have a lot of slop, you don't need any kind of locking mechanism at all--that just adds unnecessary complexity. I've helped a friend build two turntables, and they both work just like how @mmagliaro describes his: they have simple two-speed directional controls. Use the slow speed to line it up, and that's it.

Agree.  My first turntable was the Walthers Heljan one.  I bought the motorizing kit for it, worked on taking out the slop from the mechanism, and just used a DPDT switch and a rotary pot to control speed.  Worked great - it was actually more reliable than the indexing function of the Walthers Cornerstone 'table, which doesn't always align exactly correctly (this is why the installation instructions want you to file the entry and exit rails to a point).

BUT . . . to do this you have to be able to see the tracks and visually align them.  That's not possible with all the exit tracks on my layout.  I've got good visual alignment for all the tracks going into the roundhouse, but not all the tracks exiting to the engine servicing facility.  So I sort of have to rely on indexing to get those tracks aligned, or else get out a step stool so I can see what I'm doing.  Guess I could pretend that the step stool is me getting into the operator's shanty to turn an engine! 

John C.

[DKS]

Agree.  My first turntable was the Walthers Heljan one.  I bought the motorizing kit for it, worked on taking out the slop from the mechanism, and just used a DPDT switch and a rotary pot to control speed.  Worked great - it was actually more reliable than the indexing function of the Walthers Cornerstone 'table, which doesn't always align exactly correctly (this is why the installation instructions want you to file the entry and exit rails to a point).

BUT . . . to do this you have to be able to see the tracks and visually align them.  That's not possible with all the exit tracks on my layout.  I've got good visual alignment for all the tracks going into the roundhouse, but not all the tracks exiting to the engine servicing facility.  So I sort of have to rely on indexing to get those tracks aligned, or else get out a step stool so I can see what I'm doing.  Guess I could pretend that the step stool is me getting into the operator's shanty to turn an engine! 

John C.

You could install short "overrun" tracks exactly opposite all of the tracks you can't see. Or, use some other sort of visual guide--perhaps even just paint marks or debris--you only need something for one rail.

[mmagliaro]

I am loving the stampede toward "low tech" on this.   
And YES... hand crank.  Why not?

[alhoop]

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=39946.0

Check out reply #4 on this thread.

Al Hooper