Author Topic: Programming Loksound decoders for maximum fun using JMRI  (Read 4528 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Ed Kapuscinski

  • Global Moderator
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 24079
  • Head Kino
  • Respect: +7962
    • Conrail 1285
Programming Loksound decoders for maximum fun using JMRI
« on: July 23, 2020, 02:33:05 PM »
0
This new toy arrived today and I want to program it up to do the coolest stuff possible with its onboard ESU Loksound decoder.

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

I know it's possible to mimic some of the cool features that the ProtoThrottle takes advantage of even without one.

Does anyone have any recommendations for how to enable all of that fun stuff using JMRI?

If not, I guess this thread will become where I document what I find as I figure it out.

samusi01

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 435
  • Respect: +429
Re: Programming Loksound decoders for maximum fun using JMRI
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2020, 02:49:25 PM »
0
I use a LokProgrammer, but JMRI is set up to look more or less like LokProgrammer... it'll just take a while to do anything as ESU decoders are fairly complex. What features are you looking to implement in particular?

Addendum to the above: is this a v4 or v5 decoder?
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 03:00:09 PM by samusi01 »

jdcolombo

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2240
  • Respect: +925
Re: Programming Loksound decoders for maximum fun using JMRI
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2020, 02:59:50 PM »
0
What fun stuff do you want, Ed?

Here's an article I found useful, and pretty much ended up where this person did:

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/28614

The Independent Brake is probably something else you want to try.  And for these features, I like having LOTS of momentum - I'd set the momentum at 120 for the old LokSound Select (I think that translates to about 40 for the LokSound 5). 

I've also found that remapping Drive Hold, Indepedent Brake, Run 8 and Coast are very useful to actually using them.  I've assigned them to F3, F4, F5 and F6, respectively.  How you want to set it up depends a lot on what throttle you're using and how you use it, but you HAVE to assign Run 8 and Coast if you're going to use those, because they aren't pre-assigned to a function key (at least, not in the LokSound Selects; don't remember about the LokSound 5). 

If you have a LokSound 5 (probably not, if this is a factory sound unit) you can do many interesting things with the sound file - like program your own custom grade crossing sequence for the horn.  Add flashing ditch lights that automatically flash whenever you blow the horn, though that would probably take some re-work of the lights (adding more LEDs and wiring them to the Aux functions of the board) that is a lot more work than just programming.

John C.

davefoxx

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 11675
  • Gender: Male
  • TRW Plaid Member
  • Respect: +6785
Re: Programming Loksound decoders for maximum fun using JMRI
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2020, 04:09:55 PM »
0
@Ed Kapuscinski,

I have a LokProgrammer, so you are welcome to come up, and we can mess around with the CVs without risk of screwing it up.  I always save the original file, in case programming goes awry.

Then, you can test it on my ProtoThrottle and the ESU controller.  The main difference is that I have really remapped the decoder functions to standardize my fleet, but you don't need to do this.  Other than lots of momentum and the use of the independent brake, it really doesn't have to be reprogrammed that much.  The settings on the ProtoThrottle are what makes it work.

DFF

Member: ACL/SAL Historical Society
Member: Wilmington & Western RR
A Proud HOer
BUY ALL THE TRAINS!

davefoxx

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 11675
  • Gender: Male
  • TRW Plaid Member
  • Respect: +6785
Re: Programming Loksound decoders for maximum fun using JMRI
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2020, 04:22:50 PM »
0
The Independent Brake is probably something else you want to try.  And for these features, I like having LOTS of momentum - I'd set the momentum at 120 for the old LokSound Select (I think that translates to about 40 for the LokSound 5). 

I've also found that remapping Drive Hold, Indepedent Brake, Run 8 and Coast are very useful to actually using them.  I've assigned them to F3, F4, F5 and F6, respectively.  How you want to set it up depends a lot on what throttle you're using and how you use it, but you HAVE to assign Run 8 and Coast if you're going to use those, because they aren't pre-assigned to a function key (at least, not in the LokSound Selects; don't remember about the LokSound 5). 

I like lots of momentum, too.  In fact, I settled on the max on V4.0 decoders and am using a similar value on V5.0 decoders, which can have even more momentum.  I think this is around 63 seconds from full speed to stop, if I remember correctly.

I have mine set up as follows to work specifically with the ProtoThrottle (but do what works for you):
F0: Front headlight (high beam)
F1: Horn
F2: Bell
F3: Front headlight (low beam)
F4: Dynamic brake or coast (depending on whether your loco has dynamic braking)
F5: Gyralight or auxiliary lighting (if loco equipped)
F6: Rear headlight (high beam)
F7: Rear headlight (low beam)
F8: Sound on/off
F9: Drive Hold
F10: Independent brake
F11: Radiator fans
F12: Empty (I do not need the dimmer effect here- see F3 and F7 above)
F13: Empty (at present, I don't need this AUX lighting function here, either, because my era does not have ditch lights- see F5 above)
F14 and above: the default sound effects on the decoder, e.g., spitters, compressor

Note: I do not use directional headlights, which now make me cringe.

Once you get used to this, it becomes a game changer, and going back to the old way of running trains is not nearly as pleasant anymore.

DFF

Member: ACL/SAL Historical Society
Member: Wilmington & Western RR
A Proud HOer
BUY ALL THE TRAINS!

Ed Kapuscinski

  • Global Moderator
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 24079
  • Head Kino
  • Respect: +7962
    • Conrail 1285
Re: Programming Loksound decoders for maximum fun using JMRI
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2020, 05:04:48 PM »
0
What fun stuff do you want, Ed?

Here's an article I found useful, and pretty much ended up where this person did:

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/28614

The Independent Brake is probably something else you want to try.  And for these features, I like having LOTS of momentum - I'd set the momentum at 120 for the old LokSound Select (I think that translates to about 40 for the LokSound 5). 

I've also found that remapping Drive Hold, Indepedent Brake, Run 8 and Coast are very useful to actually using them.  I've assigned them to F3, F4, F5 and F6, respectively.  How you want to set it up depends a lot on what throttle you're using and how you use it, but you HAVE to assign Run 8 and Coast if you're going to use those, because they aren't pre-assigned to a function key (at least, not in the LokSound Selects; don't remember about the LokSound 5). 

If you have a LokSound 5 (probably not, if this is a factory sound unit) you can do many interesting things with the sound file - like program your own custom grade crossing sequence for the horn.  Add flashing ditch lights that automatically flash whenever you blow the horn, though that would probably take some re-work of the lights (adding more LEDs and wiring them to the Aux functions of the board) that is a lot more work than just programming.

John C.

Thank you! That was very helpful.

My main goals are to mimic the whole acceleration and braking thing. I was hoping to figure out which one of the JMRI pages I need to set the stuff up. I'm trying to avoid having to cram a Lokprogrammer into the DCC in a box box.

Ed Kapuscinski

  • Global Moderator
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 24079
  • Head Kino
  • Respect: +7962
    • Conrail 1285
Re: Programming Loksound decoders for maximum fun using JMRI
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2020, 05:05:07 PM »
0
I like lots of momentum, too.  In fact, I settled on the max on V4.0 decoders and am using a similar value on V5.0 decoders, which can have even more momentum.  I think this is around 63 seconds from full speed to stop, if I remember correctly.

I have mine set up as follows to work specifically with the ProtoThrottle (but do what works for you):
F0: Front headlight (high beam)
F1: Horn
F2: Bell
F3: Front headlight (low beam)
F4: Dynamic brake or coast (depending on whether your loco has dynamic braking)
F5: Gyralight or auxiliary lighting (if loco equipped)
F6: Rear headlight (high beam)
F7: Rear headlight (low beam)
F8: Sound on/off
F9: Drive Hold
F10: Independent brake
F11: Radiator fans
F12: Empty (I do not need the dimmer effect here- see F3 and F7 above)
F13: Empty (at present, I don't need this AUX lighting function here, either, because my era does not have ditch lights- see F5 above)
F14 and above: the default sound effects on the decoder, e.g., spitters, compressor

Note: I do not use directional headlights, which now make me cringe.

Once you get used to this, it becomes a game changer, and going back to the old way of running trains is not nearly as pleasant anymore.

DFF

Super helpful! I think that's gonna be my punchlist.

Ed Kapuscinski

  • Global Moderator
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 24079
  • Head Kino
  • Respect: +7962
    • Conrail 1285
Re: Programming Loksound decoders for maximum fun using JMRI
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2020, 09:29:34 AM »
0
Ok, I spent some time playing with JMRI last night and I can't figure out which screen and field I need to use to map one of the function keys to the brake functionality.

Any suggestions?

davefoxx

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 11675
  • Gender: Male
  • TRW Plaid Member
  • Respect: +6785
Re: Programming Loksound decoders for maximum fun using JMRI
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2020, 09:58:44 AM »
0
Ok, I spent some time playing with JMRI last night and I can't figure out which screen and field I need to use to map one of the function keys to the brake functionality.

Any suggestions?

Get access to a LokProgrammer.  :trollface:

Member: ACL/SAL Historical Society
Member: Wilmington & Western RR
A Proud HOer
BUY ALL THE TRAINS!

C855B

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 10669
  • Respect: +2285
Re: Programming Loksound decoders for maximum fun using JMRI
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2020, 10:18:48 AM »
0
ESU decoders don't work with JMRI like "normal" decoders, there are no (or few) default settings beyond the very basics. You have to populate the CV tables from the decoder before tweaking stuff. Last time I did this was for a LokPilot, and it took nearly 40 minutes to read the tables... all I wanted to do was change rear headlight function.

Good luck.

squirrelhunter

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 720
  • Respect: +165
Re: Programming Loksound decoders for maximum fun using JMRI
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2020, 10:28:31 AM »
0
This is where you buy a ProtoThrottle instead of a lokprogrammer (and worry about fitting a different board in your DCC box)!

In all honesty, I remapped zero functions on my GP38-2 decoder and it all worked on the ProtoThrottle out of the box.  The AUX button on the ProtoThrottle is already mapped to drive hold on at least the V4.0 ESU decoders and same is true of the brake function and the ProtoThrottle brake handle.

I had previously programmed the CV's using JMRI to have the headlights on in both directions at all times, so until I udo that I can't take advantage of the dimmer switch and independent front and rear headlight controls on the the ProtoThrottle.

As far as loco performance goes, I set both momentum CV's to maximum. I think I want to eventually change the speed curve to reduce the speed for each throttle notch and maybe have top speed happen in notch 6. I also want to see if I can improve performance of the brake function, I still feel like it is too on/off feeling vs a gradual application.

Ed Kapuscinski

  • Global Moderator
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 24079
  • Head Kino
  • Respect: +7962
    • Conrail 1285
Re: Programming Loksound decoders for maximum fun using JMRI
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2020, 10:45:36 AM »
0
This is where you buy a ProtoThrottle instead of a lokprogrammer (and worry about fitting a different board in your DCC box)!

In all honesty, I remapped zero functions on my GP38-2 decoder and it all worked on the ProtoThrottle out of the box.  The AUX button on the ProtoThrottle is already mapped to drive hold on at least the V4.0 ESU decoders and same is true of the brake function and the ProtoThrottle brake handle.


Well... it sounds like that might just be the answer.

jdcolombo

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2240
  • Respect: +925
Re: Programming Loksound decoders for maximum fun using JMRI
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2020, 10:46:52 AM »
0
Ok, I spent some time playing with JMRI last night and I can't figure out which screen and field I need to use to map one of the function keys to the brake functionality.

Any suggestions?

Hi Ed.

To use JMRI with a LokSound, do the following:

1.  Put engine on programming track and let JMRI read the info for the decoder type.  You should end up with LokSound Select/Direct as the decoder type.
2.  Open the comprehensive programmer screen.  Click on "Read all sheets" or alternatively, go to the CV tab and read the entire sheet.  This will populate JMRI with the decoder's default settings.  And it's going to take a while.  An hour would be about right.  When done, SAVE FILE!!!  And when it's done, you will notice that it probably didn't correctly read some values - the CV's that didn't get read correctly will be in red.  Highlight these and read the values again until you have eliminated any "bad" reads.  SAVE FILE AGAIN!!
3.  Now go to the Function Map tab.  You should see a table with 4 columns.  The LH column is labeled "CONDITIONS" and will have a list of the function keys.  The far right column is "Sound Slots".  For LokSound Select Full Throttle files, the independent brake is located in Sound Slot 11, mapped to F10.  The problem is that JMRI doesn't show you the names for the sound slots - just the numbers.  So you  have to know which sound slot you are trying to change.  Here's a typical list for an EMD 645 Full Throttle file:

Key   Functions                                        Sound slots   
F0   Directional Headlights         
F1   Bell                                                       4   
F2   Playable Airhorn                                       3   
F3   Coupler                                               5   
F4   Dynamic Brake                                       6   
F5   AUX3 (Rotary Beacon)         
F6   AUX1 + AUX2 (Front Ditchlights)         
F7   Isolation Switch         
F8   Sound (On/Off)                                       1, 17   
F9   Drive Hold                                               2   
F10   Independent Brake                               11
F11   Radiator (Fan) Sound                               8   
F12   Dimmer (Headlights)         
F13   AUX4 (Rear Ditchlights)         
F14   N/A         
F15   N/A         
F16   N/A         
F17   Brake Set / Brake Release         
F18   Sanding Valve                                      13   
F19   Short Air Let Off                                      14   
F20   Compressor                                       7   
F21   Slow Spitter Valve                             17   

Run 8 is located in Sound Slot 20 (not mapped to a Function key) and Coast is Sound Slot 21 (also not mapped).

Where do you find this info?  From LokSound's web site, in the sound files area, for the specific sound file loaded in your decoder.  You can start here to look for Select diesel sound files:

http://projects.esu.eu/projectoverviews/2?type=diesel&order=date&country=us

John C.

jdcolombo

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2240
  • Respect: +925
Re: Programming Loksound decoders for maximum fun using JMRI
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2020, 10:52:47 AM »
+2
BTW, if you've never played around with programming an ESU LokSound via JMRI, you might find the attached PDF useful for background.  Some of it is now out of date, but the general processes and procedures, as well as the look of the JMRI screens, should be the same.

John

davefoxx

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 11675
  • Gender: Male
  • TRW Plaid Member
  • Respect: +6785
Re: Programming Loksound decoders for maximum fun using JMRI
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2020, 10:53:19 AM »
0
I also want to see if I can improve performance of the brake function, I still feel like it is too on/off feeling vs a gradual application.

I haven't looked into this much yet, but this may end up being an issue with the ESU decoder, not the ProtoThrottle.  If you figure it out, please let me know!

DFF

Member: ACL/SAL Historical Society
Member: Wilmington & Western RR
A Proud HOer
BUY ALL THE TRAINS!