Hodgepodge Hiawatha F-7 Build

[Mark W]

I shared in the weekend update that I received my Milwaukee Hiawatha F-7 conversion kit from GHQ. 

Really excited to get started!


https://i.imgur.com/ZIP5a0Q.jpg


Then we heard from @Sokramiketes about some further upgrades and using some better Kato parts!

Do you want to start a separate thread on these?  There is a hodgepodge of Kato parts that can be combined instead of the old ConCor chassis.  Between a 2014 release of the Japanese C57, a GS-4 trailing truck, a UP water tender under frame, and I think, a UP FEF drawbar, everything clips together and gives the great Kato pick up and running quality.  I can share some photos.

Update: found a photo.

So here it is.  Looks like the next step, I need to locate C57 and a few other Kato parts.

[Sokramiketes]

This may get me off my butt to finish mine!

When I figured out that the right US trailing truck clipped right into the Japanese mechanism, I shouted for joy at Kato's consistent engineering.

You can see in the photo that I was varying the drawbar length a bit and testing operations.  The UP water tender chassis have all the pickups, and trucks are close (need new bearing caps) but don't have a drawbar connection on the front. 

My next puzzle to solve is the mounting of the shell on the locomotive chassis.  Plenty of room for a printed mount on top of the coreless motor.  So I'll probably fire up the Elegoo Mars after some drafting.

We need @Jim Starbuck in here too as he has one on the bench.

[Sokramiketes]

Couple photos underneath. The drawbar, which I think is an FEF drawbar, has the right length phosphor bronze wire in it. Just needs a way to mount and pivot on tender chassis. I was trying to avoid wires between tender and loco.

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[Sokramiketes]

I'm calling the chassis what I think it is based on Spookshow's page here:

http://www.spookshow.net/loco/katoc55.html

I don't know if others have the same trailing truck mount, but the small coreless is a good motor and this thing runs like a top, as expected.  The Box-Pox-ish drivers are also presentable for the Milwaukee Road.  At least enough for my dirty 1949-50 era, 

[Jim Starbuck]

Thanks for starting this thread. I’ll be following and participating as well.

My project will be slightly different as I have the older pewter GHQ conversion and I’ve got a Kato C57 coming which should be here this week.
From the photos on the auction listing the C57 cab is see-through which I’m hoping is an indication that it’s the coreless motor version.
I’ve got the other parts including the tender on hand so hopefully I can make some headway also.

[Cajonpassfan]

I shared in the weekend update that I received my Milwaukee Hiawatha F-7 conversion kit from GHQ. 

Really excited to get started!
...
So here here is.  Looks like the next step, I need to locate C57 and a few other Kato parts.

Hmm, what is the C57 scale driver size and driver spacing?
Doesn’t look quite right for 84” drivers to me...but then again, that’s me...
Otto K.

[Sokramiketes]

Hmm, what is the C57 scale driver size and driver spacing?
Doesn’t look quite right for 84” drivers to me...but then again, that’s me...
Otto K.

Drivers are smaller, but driver spacing lines up with the shell.  I'm looking at the overall spread, and that N scale drives appear oversize because of their flanges. 

Unless someone comes up with a better driver that drops into the Kato chassis?  I'm choosing running quality over dimensional perfection on mine so far.

[160pennsy]

@Mark W & @Sokramiketes I have a MIB Kato C55 but in looking at the photos the driver type is different than C57. Plus the cab on my C55 is not see thru (if that is critical )

C57 = Box-Pox ish
C55 = Spoked

Close but I think no cigar for this GHQ project

[Sokramiketes]

@Mark W & @Sokramiketes I have a MIB Kato C55 but in looking at the photos the driver type is different than C57. Plus the cab on my C55 is not see thru (if that is critical )

C57 = Box-Pox ish
C55 = Spoked

Close but I think no cigar for this GHQ project

The usual issue with Japanese steam locomotives, from the perspective of using them for North American models, is that the cabs tend to be lower slung.  With the old big motors, it made conversions difficult, as the motors didn't line up with cab space.  I think Charlie Vlk has spoken to this before, as he was investigating options back when he was at Kato.

The smaller coreless version here (see thru cab) seems to solve that problem.  If you're looking to do a 4-6-4, I think this version of the C57 would work for many projects. 

[Mark W]

I'm pleased to have GHQ sending a replacement shell.  I've also ordered some of the Kato parts mentioned. 

I've looked for the C57 with coreless motor, but can't figure out how to tell them apart.  I did find a C62 with a 4-6-4 arrangement that is supposedly released in 2018.   

Drivers are smaller, but driver spacing lines up with the shell.  I'm looking at the overall spread, and that N scale drives appear oversize because of their flanges. 

Unless someone comes up with a better driver that drops into the Kato chassis?  I'm choosing running quality over dimensional perfection on mine so far.

How much smaller?  I wonder if the Kato GS4 or FEF drivers would swap out.  If they're closer to 84" than the C57 drivers, might be something to try out.

[Jim Starbuck]

To the best of my measurements, the drivers on the C57 scale out to just under 72” and the C62 scale to 75.5”.
Here’s a comparison.

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[EL3632]

I've looked for the C57 with coreless motor, but can't figure out how to tell them apart?

The best way I have found to tell the various production runs of Kato JNR steam apart is to look at the details. The newer runs have the piping as a bronze/copper color as opposed to black molded-on piping on the older runs. Also looking for shiny metal flanges as opposed to duller ones in pictures. Also if you see one running in a video with an LED factory installed, it is the newer version. I know that doesn't mean much but those are the easiest ways to tell them apart, for me at least. The JNR C57 is actually my favorite Japanese steam engine, and it very recently got an updated rerelease, the item number Kato 2024-1. Keep a lookout for that one.

[ChristianJDavis1]

To the best of my measurements, the drivers on the C57 scale out to just under 72” and the C62 scale to 75.5”.
Here’s a comparison.

(Attachment Link)

The best way I have found to tell the various production runs of Kato JNR steam apart is to look at the details. The newer runs have the piping as a bronze/copper color as opposed to black molded-on piping on the older runs. Also looking for shiny metal flanges as opposed to duller ones in pictures. Also if you see one running in a video with an LED factory installed, it is the newer version. I know that doesn't mean much but those are the easiest ways to tell them apart, for me at least. The JNR C57 is actually my favorite Japanese steam engine, and it very recently got an updated rerelease, the item number Kato 2024-1. Keep a lookout for that one.

The post above you actually shows this pretty well; the above C57 looks to be one of the newer runs with finer details, while the C62 below is one of the earliest runs with the boiler that isn't quite to scale and the old running gear/motor/mechanism. Another good way to tell is Kato will usually have a sub-number (the -1) for detailing differences, which the first runs didn't tend to have.

[Mark W]

My replacement shell arrived.  It also had a crack, but where the window frame meets the roof at the back of the cab.  Much safer to CA back together without risking further damage in the process.  And there is a metal part  reinforces this area of the shell later on too. 

My kato parts order also came in, I think all that's left is acquiring the base C57 or equivalent*. 

*I went ahead and grabbed a spare set of FEF drivers to play with.  Will have to see if they can be fit into the C57 mech or if I need that C62 instead.
@Jim Starbuck could I ask you to measure the axle centers on each?  The C57 with 72" drivers might not have room for 80" drivers, but the C62 looks like there's some extra room for those flanges. 

[sd45elect2000]

I fear that as soon as I do a major build with F7 Hudsons , Fox Valley will introduce the 1938 Hiawatha set. There is a 1935 set on E Bay right now that is going at a VERY high price. I am certain that a 1938 train would be a sellout. I would however like some of the Milwaukee F-6 Hudsons.

I have three of the GHQ kits and 17 Con Cor Hudson engines. I was shooting to get all six F-7s but the GHQ stuff went out of stock pretty fast.

Randy