Adjusting locomotive wheels to get into gauge

[voldemort]

I have a wonderful new micrometer toy.  Its fun.  It can even measure the thickness of the green garbage bags (why, IDK, but its cool)

I have been measuring the gauge of my locomotive wheels.  Most are too close together.

Is there a way to fix that other than buying new wheels?

Thanks

BTW, what it this emoticon?

 

I think it could be someone's tongue licking a bald head.  Or someone dangling SOMETHINGS on their head. 

[Chris333]

It is a hat that is made of an a$$.   

[Rasputen]

Is there a specific model you want to re-gauge??  Some are relatively easy, while some are impossible.

[randgust]

Most current diesels have split axles of some kind and it's not all that difficult.

Steam is another matter entirely.

But I guarantee you that if it exists, somebody here has torn one apart and can offer an opinion, so specify what you're looking at.   If you're having trouble identifying it, see Mark Peterson's website (spookshow.net) right down to the production run, as a surprising number of mechanisms have multiple versions stuck under the same shell over the years.

[peteski]

Yes, the question is too generic. There is no single way to re-gauge all wheels.  More specific info is needed.

And as far as  goes, I first learned about this when I joined this forum (but I live a sheltered life).   If you do a web (Google) search for a$$hat, (replace "$$" with "ss" as the forum software automatically censors the "bad" word)  you will get lots of definitions (mostly with negative connotations), while here it is usually a compliment.

[nickelplate759]

Pete's advice spot on, but here's some general advice if you want to try and figure it out yourself.

If the model has metal half-axles pushed into a plastic center tube (with or without a gear), it's usually pretty easy to widen the gauge by pulling the axles out a bit, even with your fingers.  As indicated above, many N-scale diesel models are made like this.     However, if the axle has needle points that rid in outside bearings, you may also have to adjust the bearing [ especially if you widen the gauge a lot ], or move MAYBE the wheel outward on the half axle.   SOME half-axle setups have a wheel pushed onto the axle, and you can move the wheel on the half-axle, but some are turned in a single piece and immovable.  I've ruined at least one AND damaged my gear puller by trying 

If you have to move a wheel on an axle, you'll want a tool to help.  Prying with a screwdriver is NOT a good idea, as it can lead to wobble.  You want something like a gear puller, or the NWSL "Puller".

Steam drivers are generally a royal pain to regauge - to do it right you need to remove the driver set from the model, which means you have to disconnect it from the drive rods, and be careful not to screw up the quartering.   Someone (Max Magliero? ) has pointed out that this is easier if you only do one driver set at a time - disconnect it, take it out and adjust it, put it back and reconnect it before going on to the next one.

[mmagliaro]

...

Steam drivers are generally a royal pain to regauge - to do it right you need to remove the driver set from the model, which means you have to disconnect it from the drive rods, and be careful not to screw up the quartering.   Someone (Max Magliero? ) has pointed out that this is easier if you only do one driver set at a time - disconnect it, take it out and adjust it, put it back and reconnect it before going on to the next one.

I wrote a book... SORRY!
Sometimes... they are a pain.  Usually more than diesels.   You do have to be able to gently pry out crankpins (I use an Xacto knife blade, with my finger on the pin to keep it from flying off into space as it comes out) if there are crankpins in the driver you want to fix.

There are 3 cases: a driver pinned to the rods but not geared, a driver geared but not pinned to the rods, and a driver that is BOTH pinned and geared.

PINNED ONLY
This actually makes the job EASIER.  You pry out the pins, remove the gear cover plate, lift out the driver axle, and then use a wheel puller (i.e. the NWSL "puller" or similar) to pull the drivers apart to the correct gauge.  Then drop it back in and put the pins back in.  You don't have to worry about getting it positioned right.  The rods/pins will only go back in one way so there is no quartering to worry about.

GEARED ONLY
No crankpins to pull out.  Remove the cover plate, lift out the driver set.  Since it is geared, you will have to sort of half-lift/half-roll the axle up out of the frame to get away from the idler gear, and you REALLY want to hold the other drivers still with your finger so they don't rotate while you are doing this.  Once it's out, wheel puller and regauge.  To put it back in, you have to kind of lower it in and half-roll it over the idler to get it back in there.  If the counterweight on the face of the driver doesn't line up with the other drivers, lift it out, turn it a little, and repeat.  This is purely cosmetic because the rod isn't pinned on this driver, so it will still run fine.  It just won't look nice if you don't get the counterweights lined up.

GEARED AND PINNED
This is the most difficult.  You remove the pins, roll the driver out, and fix the gauge.  But now, when you put it back in, it is IMPERATIVE that you the gear back in and meshed to the idler on the same tooth it was on before.  It is usually not possible to reach down into the mechanism and leave any sort of mark on the gears.  So put it in to get the counterweights lined up by eye.  The holes for the crankpins should easily line up with the holes in the rods.   Put the pins in, and try it.  If you are one tooth off on the gear either way, odds are you will see a periodic bind or hitch in the motion.  So now you have to lift that driver set back out, carefully rotate it 1 tooth one way or the other, drop it back in and try again.
With practice, you will be able to tell by looking at how precisely the driver and rod holes line up that you have it right, and you won't need this agonizing trial-and-error.  But the first few times you do it, it can be hard to tell because there is enough slop in most mechanisms that you can get the rods to go back on and still be one tooth off on the gear.

And YES... I strongly recommend doing this only one axle at a time and making sure you haven't screwed up the mechanism before you move on to the next driver set.

One final comment: because of the labor involved, some people do just slip a screwdriver or Xacto blade down in behind the driver and pry a little to spread them apart to the correct gauge.  Well.. sometimes it works.  Sometimes you will imperceptably "egg shape" the axle hole, causing wobbling, or making the driver start slipping on the axle which will inevitably jam the mechanism.

[ncbqguy]

Use a NMRA gauge to check for proper wheel dimensions.  The flange position is the only reliable way to gauge wheels and can be difficult to measure.  Follow the instructions for go/no go use of that tool to get reliable results.
Charlie Vlk

[peteski]

Good point Charlie.  NMRA, or even Micro-Trains Gauge is the best way to check.

[narrowminded]

One thing of note to be sure of when using your calipers and making inside measurements, make sure that you are holding the tool squarely at 90 degrees to the two measured faces.  If you have the calipers angled towards the centerline of the axle they will read less than the actual dimension because of the angle.  Look at how they're constructed and measure some things and you'll see what I'm talking about.  And if you're measuring inside holes they will always read low due to the flat face on the tool anvil.  The smaller the hole, the worse the error.  It's pretty bad on any hole under 1".  It's not too bad after 2" but still isn't perfect.

[voldemort]

Thank you- my worst offender is my Broadway E8- I found it on Spookshow

http://www.spookshow.net/loco/pcme7.html

The spookshow listing is very helpful in seeing whats inside BEFORE I take it apart

[wm3798]

Welcome to the best forum for train modelers in the known universe.  (There's another one based out of Alpha Centauri, but they have really bad wi-fi there, and all the trains run on 6' gauge, so who models that?).

Peteski is right.  The  is a term of endearment here at the 'wire, cultivated over decades of careful consideration of just exactly what it means to be an  .

It helps to have a sense of humor about yourself and your skills, a willingness to at times look past the errors of someone else's models, and at times to skewer them with surgical accuracy.
Posting photos of your work always helps, and will bring credibility to your own comments.  Becoming a full on  takes time, and it is a privilege that is earned.

Don't worry about whether or not  you think your photo skills aren't up to par... we have members who will help you lift that game as well as your modeling.

As for your original question, for the newer model you're working with, I highly recommend getting yourself a set of small jeweler's screwdrivers.  In addition to helping you more precisely manipulate the gauge of your errant wheelsets, they can also get you into the inner workings of just about anything related to the hobby.

So before I go too deep into fundamentals, introduce yourself!  How long have you been in the hobby?  What are you working on?  What are your interests?

Lee

[nkalanaga]

I would model 6 foot gauge, if I could get prototype data on the Alpha Centauri railroads.  That would be fun to see!  Assuming they aren't too far ahead of us, technologically, I imagine much of it would be familiar.  There are only so many practical ways to run flanged wheels on rails.

I wonder what kind of couplers they came up with?

[randgust]

Wow, Mark really outdid himself on that review.    Particularly the truck shots with the sideframes off.

And that automatically brings up a point with split-axle wheelsets.   Depending on the design, 'correcting' (widening) the gauge can do weird things to the tracking and performance if that tightens up the tolerances on the end-axles inside the pickup cups.   A long-wheelbase E-unit may have some substantial 'slop' in it to properly negotiate some tighter curves.  If it weren't for the soldered-on truck wires, you could rather easily just drop the trucks off and roll them around with your fingers through curves and switches to make sure you haven't done something in the process of fixing a problem and creating a brand new one.

The BLI PA1 that I borrowed was one of the worst tracking locomotives I've ever seen with small flanges, tight tolerances, and a long fixed wheelbase in the trucks.   The Life-Like PA has a lot more 'slop' in the trucks/axles allowing  more horizontal movement, slightly deeper flanges, and has no tracking issues at all, just a more tolerant truck design.   I've got superelevated 13" curves, and the BLI unit really hated those.    I've got a brass 4-8-4 that gave me less grief.   So if it's derailing, and you're finding narrow wheel gauge, that may be true, but there may be a track/truck interaction going on here that's more than gauge.

The first thing I'd recommend is don't frutz with it unless it is ACTUALLY DERAILING.   Being 'too narrow' may be true, but given the wheelbase of the thing, unless it was actually causing a tracking problem on my own layout, I'd just live with it.

[Simon D.]

I have one of these: a back to back for British N gauge, which can be used to gently tease wheelsets apart.  They are 7.45 mm wide, which seems to be different to the NMRA standard: [size=78%]https://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/standards/sandrp/pdf/s-4.2_2019.01.04.pdf[/size].  According to Google 0.301 inches is 7.6454 mm.  Perhaps I am reading this wrong. The track is the same!


https://www.nbrasslocos.co.uk/fitall.html#GAUGE