Kato 90's Nissan Set

[cfritschle]

Hobby Search has a listing for a follow up set to the Kato 90's Toyota set, which was released nearly 20 years ago.  https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10682359

And here is a link to the graphics on Kato's website:  https://www.katomodels.com/product/n/ku5000

It will be interesting to see if this set is 1:160 scale like the 90's Toyota set, or 1:150 scale, like the rest of the Kato Japanese prototype automobiles they offer.   The Hobby Search site states the Cedric is the Y31 (1987-91) and the Pulsar in the N13 (1986-90).

[peteski]

Carter,
The Hobby Search Japan states that those will be 1:150 scale.  I wouldn't think that Kato would release models of Japanese prototype cars in 1:160 scale.


Item code   :   23-520
Manufacturer   :   Kato
Scale   :   N Scale , 1/150
Series   :   Accessories (Car)
Release Date    :    Jun(Mar. 6, 2020 Pre-order start.)

Except for the Volvo trucks, I didn't think Kato releases any passenger sets in 1:160 scale. Which ones you say were 1:160?

The other cars featured on the Kato web page you linked to are the same old Japanese sedans in 1:150 scale which you mentioned would be decent stand-ins for some larger American cars.  They are shown loaded onto Japanese autorack cars (in 1:150 scale too).

[cfritschle]

Carter,
The Hobby Search Japan states that those will be 1:150 scale.  I wouldn't think that Kato would release models of Japanese prototype cars in 1:160 scale.


Item code   :   23-520
Manufacturer   :   Kato
Scale   :   N Scale , 1/150
Series   :   Accessories (Car)
Release Date    :    Jun(Mar. 6, 2020 Pre-order start.)

Except for the Volvo trucks, I didn't think Kato releases any passenger sets in 1:160 scale. Which ones you say were 1:160?

The other cars featured on the Kato web page you linked to are the same old Japanese sedans in 1:150 scale which you mentioned would be decent stand-ins for some larger American cars.  They are shown loaded onto Japanese autorack cars (in 1:150 scale too).

Peter,

I am not really questioning the scale listed for the Nissans on the Hobby Search web page, but Kato did make their 1990's Toyotas (shown below) in 1:160 scale!



I was even told by a Kato rep at the 2000 National Train Show / N West Convention in San Jose  that the 1990's Toyotas would be 1:150 scale, which thankfully proved to be wrong.  So I am hoping the Kato Nissan models might be small enough to use with 1:160 scale vehicles.

My wishful thinking is somewhat based on the Kato Toyota Probox.  The 1:150 scale Probox generally looks OK with 1:160 scale models (shown below with the 1:150 scale Kato Toyota Crown and the 1:160 scale Atlas F-150).  I use the 1:150 scale Probox as a stand-in for a 1:160 scale Chevrolet Uplander.   



And, I think Kato may take into consideration what the 1:160 scale modelers might be able to use when they make their vehicle models.   


 

[peteski]

Carter,
I can see Kato making 1:160 models when they are geared towards the export market (Europe, USA), but I am really surprised that they would make Japanese prototype vehicles in a scale other than 1:150. Wouldn't their Japanese customer turn their noses up at those?  We both know that Japanese market is Kato's bread and butter.

I'm also confused at your statement that "The 1:150 scale Probox generally looks OK with 1:160 scale models (shown below with the 1:150 scale Kato Toyota Crown and the 1:160 scale Atlas F-150).  I use the 1:150 scale Probox as a stand-in for a 1:160 scale Chevrolet Uplander. "   So the Kato models below are 1:150, used as stand-ins for 1:160 vehicles, correct?


Going back to those 1:160 scale Japanese vehicles:

What are the part numbers for those sets?  Does the box specifically state that those are modeled in 1:160 scale, or you ended up comparing the model's dimensions with the prototype?

Sorry that I'm so confused.

[cfritschle]

Peter,

The Kato part no. for the 90's Toyota set is 23-505.  Kato does not put the "scale ratio" on their vehicle packages, only N-Gauge, N-Scale or just N.  I used my digital calipers to measure the length, width, height and wheelbase of the models and calculated the scale based on published dimensions for the prototypes. 

The packaging lists the names used for the prototypes in the Japanese marketing area.  Four of the vehicles were also marketed in North America under different names, and three of those were marketed in the U.S.  The names listed on the Kato package are:

Vitz = Toyota Echo hatchback (5 door) marketed in Canada for the 2004-05 model years

Altezza = Lexus IS 300 marketed in North America from mid-2000 for 2001-05 model years

Harrier = Lexus RX 300 marketed in North America for the 1998-2002 model years

Estima = Previa marketed in North America for the 1991-97 model years

The other two vehicles in the 6-pack is a 1988-91 Crown, which is very similar to a Lexus LS 400 that was introduced to the North American market in September 1992 as a 1993 model, and the Noah minivan, which appears to be a 1998-2001 LiteAce TownAce Noah.

If you would like, and can take some comparison photos of the Kato 90's Toyotas next to some "well known" 1:160 scale vehicles.   

[peteski]

If you would like, and can take some comparison photos of the Kato 90's Toyotas next to some "well known" 1:160 scale vehicles.   

No need Carter - I have been following (and archiving) your column in the N Scale Enthusiast Magazine for years.  I remember you doing comparisons like that.  I would just have to dig through my archive to find them.

I'm surprised that those Japanese vehicles scale out as 1:160.  Since scale is not mentioned on the packaging, maybe Japanese modelers are not as sensitive to the 1:150/1:160 scale difference in vehicles? 

And thanks for all the info!

[Philip H]

I'm surprised that those Japanese vehicles scale out as 1:160.  Since scale is not mentioned on the packaging, maybe Japanese modelers are not as sensitive to the 1:150/1:160 scale difference in vehicles? 

I feel a banner coming on here, but we need a shorter quote . . .

[DKS]

I'm surprised that those Japanese vehicles scale out as 1:160.  Since scale is not mentioned on the packaging, maybe Japanese modelers are not as sensitive to the 1:150/1:160 scale difference in vehicles?

Japanese modelers work in both 1:150 and 1:160.

http://davidksmith.com/birth-of-n/japanese.htm

[cfritschle]

No need Carter - I have been following (and archiving) your column in the N Scale Enthusiast Magazine for years.  I remember you doing comparisons like that.  I would just have to dig through my archive to find them.

I'm surprised that those Japanese vehicles scale out as 1:160.  Since scale is not mentioned on the packaging, maybe Japanese modelers are not as sensitive to the 1:150/1:160 scale difference in vehicles? 

And thanks for all the info!

Peter,

I have not gotten to covering the Kato 90's Toyota set in my articles for the N Scale Enthusiast member's magazine quite yet, so you will not find these in your archive.

[peteski]

Japanese modelers work in both 1:150 and 1:160.

http://davidksmith.com/birth-of-n/japanese.htm

I am aware of that fact.  Majority of Japanese railroads are narrow gauge, which, with 9mm track, scales out to 1:150.  Then the Shinkansen is standard gauge, still running on 9mm track, which scales out to 1:160.
Since in real life both coexist, literally next to each other, if one wants to realistically include both on their layout, that becomes a bit of a modeling dilemma as far as automobiles and structures go.  I suspect that most Japanese layouts use 1:150 items (judging by the proliferation of Japanese prototype models made in 1:150 scale).  That makes me think that the market for 1:160 scale non-train Japanese-prototype items wound be very, very small.

[DMetz]

I have ten of the micro trains open tri-level auto racks, and I filled them with the Kato 23-500 Toyota Crown autos.  It takes 15 autos per auto rack.  For me, they are a good stand in for late 70's and very early 80's US autos.  They are light enough to not overload the racks, and relatively inexpensive - a little over $1 each.  It looks pretty good when they are run together.  I recently acquired more racks, and tried to get more of the autos.  They seem to have been sold out in the US at most retailers for at least several months.  So I found some on Ebay from PlazaJapan.  When they arrived, the part number was the same, but the packaging is now different.  Previously it was a small cardboard box, with a vac-formed tray inside.  Now it is a blister pack style.  But most importantly, the auto colors have changed!  Previously, the Kato 23-500 had two tan, two blue, one red, and one white auto.  Now the same pack has two green, two red, one white, and one black auto.  I had placed my autos randomly in the racks, so the auto colors would look better.   Now, I need to remove most of the autos from the previous racks, and re-shuffle the colors.  Otherwise, the racks will have distinctly different groups of auto colors inside.

Dan M

[cfritschle]

I have ten of the micro trains open tri-level auto racks, and I filled them with the Kato 23-500 Toyota Crown autos.  It takes 15 autos per auto rack.  For me, they are a good stand in for late 70's and very early 80's US autos.  They are light enough to not overload the racks, and relatively inexpensive - a little over $1 each.  It looks pretty good when they are run together.  I recently acquired more racks, and tried to get more of the autos.  They seem to have been sold out in the US at most retailers for at least several months.  So I found some on Ebay from PlazaJapan.  When they arrived, the part number was the same, but the packaging is now different.  Previously it was a small cardboard box, with a vac-formed tray inside.  Now it is a blister pack style.  But most importantly, the auto colors have changed!  Previously, the Kato 23-500 had two tan, two blue, one red, and one white auto.  Now the same pack has two green, two red, one white, and one black auto.  I had placed my autos randomly in the racks, so the auto colors would look better.   Now, I need to remove most of the autos from the previous racks, and re-shuffle the colors.  Otherwise, the racks will have distinctly different groups of auto colors inside.

Dan M

Dan,

Kato generally changes the colors with each production run.  I purchased my first 6-pack around 1987 or 88.  At that time they were in a blister pack with a Labelle label!  Charlie Vlk once told be that Con-Cor had likely repackaged the Kato Toyota Crown models since Labelle was a Con-Cor "brand" at that time.

The Toyota Crowns first showed up under the Kato name in the 1990 Walthers catalog, and those cars were in the little cardboard boxes.  The 1:150 scale Kato Toyota Crowns always remind me of a 1:160 scale 1982 Chrysler New Yorker, which was boxier and approximately 15 inches shorter than the 1981 New Yorker.    

[cfritschle]

Hobby Search now has this set listed as available.  https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10682359

I wonder if Kato USA will import a few sets?

[eja]

Do they have steering wheels ?  What side are they on ?

[cfritschle]

Do they have steering wheels ?  What side are they on ?

It doesn't look like they have steering wheels, or any interior detail.  But if they do have steering wheels, they would be on the right.   

These cars are inexpensive "auto rack fillers" that probably will be too large to use with 1:160 scale models.  However, I will likely get a set just to see how they look. 

Who knows, they might be usable as "generic" N scale (1:160) automobiles, much like the Kato Toyota Crowns that come in the 6-pack.