Repowering an old ConCor/Kato Hudson

[wm3798]

Good eye, @Doug G.
Looks like there might have been a pin in there, there's a hole in the driver and in the rod, perhaps someone "repaired" a bad wobble by just taking it out.  I'll still go and rotate the wheel to correct the appearance, anyway.

@mmagliaro I'll look at lowering the top of that trailing truck to make sure it's not pushing the rear driver off the rails even a tiny bit...  I don't think the flanges are the issue, as they appear to be lower than the top of the truck frame.  I'm thinking a little nip and tuck should do the trick there.  A smaller diameter wheel might lower it, but then I'd worry about the bottom of the truck frame dragging on the railhead or catching on a frog.

Lee

[ns737]

I looked at mine. not shure witch version I have. but all the drivers are pined to the rods

[u18b]

I was thinking that milling the trailing truck might help as well.

1mm may not sound like much, but it can sometimes make a difference- in this case with traction if the trailing truck touching the motor is lifting the rear at times.

[Doug G.]

The side rods are SUPPOSED to be attached to the front drivers. I just saw the one in the picture isn't and yes, somebody probably just left the pins/screws out. They may not have known how to correct the mispositioning of the driver.

Doug

[mmagliaro]

I was thinking that milling the trailing truck might help as well.

1mm may not sound like much, but it can sometimes make a difference- in this case with traction if the trailing truck touching the motor is lifting the rear at times.

Totally agree.  I didn't realize the wheel wasn't touching (that only the frame was the problem).
And Lee, I wouldn't even attempt a smaller diameter wheel.  Not only would the truck frame possible drag on the track, it would not sit level.  The slots in the frame are set so that the truck rides level with those too oddball different-diameter wheels in there (which is prototypically correct for the NYC Hudson, by the way).

[Albert in N]

This is the underside of my Con-Cor early Kato Hudson.  On mine, only the rear and center drivers are pinned to the side rod valve gear.  The front axle is open, probably to facilitate changing the one and only traction tire.  The trailing truck under the fire pan has the prototype larger wheels on rear with smaller toward the drivers.  The ancient Bachmann Hamm's car is for  vintage thought of refreshment.  This time, I used my ancient digital Olympus Camedia D-560 zoom camera.

[peteski]

Looks like all the drivers are geared, so the siderods (with or without crankpins) are pretty much cosmetic.  If the counterweight is off and crankpin missing, whoever reassembled the loco probably skipped the gear tooth when reinstalling the driver and decided to just live with it as-is.

[mmagliaro]

Wow... what discoveries we are making!
So here's info about the rods, the pinning, and a traction assist for Lee's engine...

Since it was pointed out to me that the mechanism I used for testing ALSO had the counterweights out of whack, I pulled it out again.  Yes.  The front driver was rotated out of sync.  I unscrewed the gear cover, pulled it up a little and rotated it into the proper place.  And that's when I saw that there are no pins on the front driver, and there never were!  The front rod hole isn't a hole.  It has a "faux" crankpin head molded right onto it so that it looks correct, but there is no pin.

Lee, look at the front "hole" on your side rods.  Is there a hole, or is it just a fake "cover"?  Note, there IS a hole in the driver, but it isn't used on the front driver.

Another odd thing between mine and Lee's....  Lee's latest photo shows a traction tire on ONE front driver.  My drivers have no grooves for a tire.   And even odder, Spookshow's locomotive encyclopedia says that these 1st gen engines had traction tires on one driver set.  This makes me think that the driver set on the front of my engine is not original, which would explain how it got out of sync.  Somebody probably replaced it (maybe the tires broke and they couldn't get replacements?), and when they put it in, it was out of position, but it isn't pinned, so the engine ran fine.

So Lee, I think if you had the correct wheelset in that front driver position, with traction tires on each side, you'd have much better pulling power.   I would further bet that the traction tire driver is supposed to go on the BACK, not the FRONT, and it would work a lot better that way.  (The subsequent generation Hudsons a few of which I own, all have the traction tire driver on the back with tires on each side)   Try swapping the drivers from position 1 and 3.  You'll have to unpin the set on the rear and then put the pins back in after you swap them.  Even 1 tire on the rear will probably work better than what you have.

[peteski]

I suspect that the TT was installed on the front driver for ease of replacement (no crank pin to take out and lose).  Similar to the TT on the rear driver of Kato Mikado (again, that loco has no crank pins on the rear driver).

[mmagliaro]

Maybe this will help.
Albert... does this engine of your have traction tires?  And if so, on which driver are they?

"Having one where the lights don't work is prototypical, I'm told." [from Lee's post] 
From a suggestion from Nato several years ago, I have used craft store stick on scrapbook jewels when I needed a rear red caboose light or (in this case) a headlight where the factory simply had a hole.  As a side note to ConCor Kato Hudson fans, this one came unboxed with Great Northern colors and no road number.  I have thought about repainting it and installing decals for my preference of another railroad.  If this has some collector value, I will leave GN colors.  This Hudson runs very well, likes replacement Kato traction tire, and will only get slightly warm after about 30 minutes running.

"

[Albert in N]

See upside down photo (with the Hamm's box car).  There is only one traction tire on front left (looking forward from cab).  The other wheels have no grooves. I think this early locomotive is all original never disassembled.  I replaced the original tan color traction tire (which was pectrified) with a Kato tire.  This was part of the estate buy I made in October 2019.  When I first ran it, the ozone odor rivaled that of an old tin plate Lionel or Marx 027 loco.  After light LaBelle lubrication, it runs well with only a trace of ozone, similar to my old Arnold Rapido GP7.  It runs smoothly and gets warm, but not hot, but is a little loud (N scale tin plate).

[wm3798]

On closer inspection, I can verify that the side rod has a faux pin dimple, not a hole, and that there are no traction tires or grooves for same on Any of the drivers.  What you see in the picture is a tidy line of oxidation/ dirt.

Given that the counterweight is out of whack, I suspect the front driver was likely replaced at some point with one of the non TT axles. 

I suppose I could send Max to the post office yet again with another tiny parcel from his endless parts yard, but my own experience with traction tires has been less than successful.

Job one will be resolving the clearance issue over the trailing truck, and getting all 6 drivers solidly on the railhead to see how that might improve traction.  After that we'll see about adding a tire.

Lee

[Albert in N]

Rivarossi steamers have the same faux dimple on their side rods.  For example, their 0-8-0 and 2-8-2 have only two of the four driver axles pinned or screwed onto the side rods, with all driver axles geared with brass gears.  Contrast that with the MiniTrix 2-10-0 decapod which has all five axles screwed or pinned onto the side rods, with all five axles having brass gears and two of the five axles having traction tires (four traction tire wheels). 

[wm3798]

And that combination on the Trix Decapod makes it the top performer of my Retro steam fleet.  I'm in the process of planning its face lift to correct that smokebox/valve gear thing now that I have several shells to monkey with, including a Camden/Amboy casting.

Lee

[central.vermont]

Lee,
Glad the motor has worked out!!

Also been meaning to ask you this but do you dress in retro clothing while modeling?   

Jon