Repowering an old ConCor/Kato Hudson

[wm3798]

Among the raft of jalopies I've accumulated is a Kato drive ConCor Hudson,a first run probably from the early 70s according to http://www.spookshow.net/loco/ccj3a.html






It's a pretty enough engine, and plenty powerful, but the overheating motor problem has effectively sidelined it. 
I'm wondering if any of the steam tinkerers here have any experience replacing the motor with something better, and if so, how you went about mounting it. 
The motor is installed with a side mounted screw with no other bracket to hold it in place.

According to Spookshow, the mechanism's chief liability is a lack of tender pick up, and the motor.  I'm thinking if I can work a new, better motor into it, the pick up is less of an issue. (4 of six drivers pick up, as do the lead and trailing trucks, it appears... for my purposes this should be plenty.) 

The main goal is to have something functional that can run more reliably for hours at a time, not 15 minutes then it cooks itself.

Any thoughts?  Or do we release it back into the wild and seek a newer version?

Lee

[Rasputen]

For the tender, I recommend Kato GS-4 tender trucks.  I think you can still get them from their parts department.

[brokemoto]

If you can get one of the motors from the C-C Mexican manufactured Hudson, you might be able to get it to fit.  I had some, at one point.  I will try to find one and a flywheel.  I sold off all of my C-C Hudsons, but, do not remember selling the extra motors.  Many stated that you did not need the flywheel, but, I found that leaving off the things seriously compromised the pulling power.  One disadvantage is that C-C did not balance the flywheel, thus it could result in premature wear to the armature bearings.  This is why I ordered some extra when C-C had them available.

These things have another problem in that the mechanism tends to lock up after many hours of running.  I am not sure how to duck that bullet, but, I suspect that it could be done.

[TVRR]

A member of this board remotored mine with a Bachmann 2-8-0 motor and it runs great, slow speed of less than 3 mph.

[peteski]

Wouldn't the standard Kato (or Atlas) motor fin in there?  Or is the worm on the motor shaft?

[wm3798]

The worm is on the motor shaft, which is not an insurmountable problem.
The bigger issue is the mounting screw that's drilled into the plastic motor housing on the side.  In the second photo, the silver screw behind the last driver is the only physcal connection between the motor and the frame.  You can see in the first photo, it just sort of floats on the engineer's side.

Using a different motor would require a suitable "fleshy bit" to run the screw into in just the right place on the new motor, or rethinking how the motor is installed altogether.

Lee

[wm3798]

A member of this board remotored mine with a Bachmann 2-8-0 motor and it runs great, slow speed of less than 3 mph.

That's about what I have in mind...  Did the motor come from the older White Box Bachmann or a newer Spectrum?  Can you pull the shell and share a picture of the modification?

Thanks in advance.
Lee

[mike_lawyer]

I would get a Bachmann Spectrum tender, it would solve all your pickup problems.  Get that worked out first, then worry about the motor.

[peteski]

The worm is on the motor shaft, which is not an insurmountable problem.
The bigger issue is the mounting screw that's drilled into the plastic motor housing on the side.  In the second photo, the silver screw behind the last driver is the only physcal connection between the motor and the frame.  You can see in the first photo, it just sort of floats on the engineer's side.

Using a different motor would require a suitable "fleshy bit" to run the screw into in just the right place on the new motor, or rethinking how the motor is installed altogether.

Lee

Ah, I see what you mean. The chassis is asymmetrical and the motor is being held by that screw on one side only.  You'll likely have to rethink the mounting method.

[wm3798]

I would get a Bachmann Spectrum tender, it would solve all your pickup problems.  Get that worked out first, then worry about the motor.

I have a Spectrum tender, but it's a 2 axle truck set up, and the drawbar would have to be reworked substantially to provide both the correct physical connection and power transfer.  The pick up from just the engine appears to be adequate, so my preference will be to get it running, then concern myself with enhancing the pick up once I've successfully got it running again.

I have a Bachmann motor with a worm gear in stock, which I think will work.  When I get some tinkering time I'll see if it can be drilled out for the mounting screw without fouling the armature.

While I'm at it, I'm going to see if I can drill out a slot into which to shove a lightbulb up front.  It's basically a split frame design, so I think that should be fairly simple.

Lee

[mmagliaro]

Let me go dig through my old Hudson stuff.  I think I have one of those 1st-gen chassis lying around, and some of the later gen Hudson motors from the 1980s after Kato put pickups in the tender.  I'll post back when I know what I've got.
I think you could make a later Hudson motor fit in there, even with that nutty mounting screw arrangement.

[mmagliaro]

Okay, I checked it out.  One of those nice old 1990s LifeLike motors will fit right in there and the large black plastic section at the front of it  lines up perfectly with that hole.  I was able to tape an 0-80 hole into it, and then mount the motor right in there with an 0-80 screw.

You will need that mod 0.4 worm off the old motor.  I don't have any of those old motors, and I don't think I have any mod 0.4 worms.  I foolishly put an 0.3 worm on there with some Loctite to try it out and then realized that the idler is the coarser gear type, so it wouldn't mesh.  Note, this is a coarser gear than the common mod 0.3 that's on a standard Kato motor these days.  Tou may have to grind or shim the frame a little on the bottom to adjust the motor height a little to get the worm gear mesh just right, but I think it will work.

I really would advise you to upgrade the tender trucks, or get a later generation Hudson tender on there to add the tender pickup.  The 4 drivers were not very reliable pickup in that 1st gen version.

[wm3798]

I guess I better invest in a gear puller!
I also have a Life Like motor in stock.  I'll check out the clearances and see how it goes.
This project may go back on the shelf for a bit though.  The LL motor is in reserve for the E-60 repower project..

Thanks, @mmagliaro   BTW, the goodie box arrived yesterday.  Thanks!

Lee

[mmagliaro]

I guess I better invest in a gear puller!
I also have a Life Like motor in stock.  I'll check out the clearances and see how it goes.
This project may go back on the shelf for a bit though.  The LL motor is in reserve for the E-60 repower project..

Thanks, @mmagliaro   BTW, the goodie box arrived yesterday.  Thanks!

Lee

If you don't have one, or cannot get that worm off the old motor, mail it on over.

[central.vermont]

Lee,
That Lifelike motor you are talking about is it the same one that was used in their GP18 with the plastic frame if it
is I have 2 of them and would be willing to send one to you. Also nobody has asked this but why is the motor
heating up anyway? Is something binding and does it heat up if out of the chassis running on its own?

Jon