TOOLS

[Maletrain]

Speaking of $500 tools that would be great to have: the Micro Mark clinic at Springfield demonstrated an ultrasonic hobby knife that cuts stuff with seemingly no resistance.  People were really interested until they saw the price tag.  On sale today at $400! (But, your self-healing cutting pads won't heal from these wounds.)

[JMaurer1]

I will stop needing tools just as soon as I stop buying rolling stock...

[parkrrrr]

So while I will still be buying a China import, I am pushing for more of an 8 x 16 with roller bearings in the spindle, a bigger motor, all metal gears, etc.  It will cost a little more, and I will buy it from Grizzly or a similar US house, so I at least have some warranty protection.

Max, if you haven't checked out Little Machine Shop, it's probably worth your time to do so. Their 8.5 x 20 bench lathe (an upgraded Sieg SC4) ticks all of your boxes except for the roller bearings (it has ball bearings, but they're name-brand ball bearings.)

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I took the proceeds from my recent RMC article as "seed money", and have begun dedicated saving to finally, once-and-for-all, buy a lathe.   I want something sturdier than the little Harbor Freight machines.  So while I will still be buying a China import, I am pushing for more of an 8 x 16 with roller bearings in the spindle, a bigger motor, all metal gears, etc.  It will cost a little more, and I will buy it from Grizzly or a similar US house, so I at least have some warranty protection.  I briefly entertained the idea of trying to find a really solid, reconditioned old US-made lathe like a South Bend heavy 10, but those machines are either thousands of dollars more expensive than I will ever be able to afford or they are old bruisers that would require a ton of rework to make them into their former greatness.

Which brings me to my thread-related point:
SOME tools, like a lathe, you have to go on a crusade to get, as opposed to just picking one up when you need it.

Hahah, true.

Have you watched the This Old Tony series on the mini-lathe?

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https://www.hackster.io/news/this-old-tony-introduces-and-upgrades-a-700-mini-lathe-a1b132b20df6

[conrad]

I think the rule is-
I have every tool EXCEPT for the one(s) I must have to complete the project I am half way through....

This also applies to paint colors, decals, lumber, electrical connectors, dinner ingredients, etc.

And don't forget the corollary, the probability of breaking a tool or bit is inverse to the number of spares you have on hand.

And how about another corollary:  You can't find the tool you need, you go out, buy a new one, finish the job then trip over the "long lost original" tool.

Now you have two, each to be lost in the garage, basement, tool box or pocket!

Conrad

[mmagliaro]

Max, if you haven't checked out Little Machine Shop, it's probably worth your time to do so. Their 8.5 x 20 bench lathe (an upgraded Sieg SC4) ticks all of your boxes except for the roller bearings (it has ball bearings, but they're name-brand ball bearings.)

Thanks.  I am well aware of LMS's 8.5 x 20.   It is on my potential "short list".   It's getting a little spendy at about $1800, but it
has all the hot-button points, as you say, and it variable-speed with a 1000-watt motor 1 HP motor.  The other makers go to
belt or gear changing when the motor power gets that high.  And at 280 lbs, while it will be much more unwieldy for me to get into my garage and up on a bench, makes it much more rigid than the typical 100-pound hobby machines.

Yes, I know this is probably power and rigidity overkill for turning little N Scale parts.  But... the TOOL RULE prevails.  I do not want to do this again.  I want a nice machine if I'm going to do this.

[mmagliaro]

Max, if you haven't checked out Little Machine Shop, it's probably worth your time to do so. Their 8.5 x 20 bench lathe (an upgraded Sieg SC4) ticks all of your boxes except for the roller bearings (it has ball bearings, but they're name-brand ball bearings.)

The plot thickens.  LMS sells replacement roller bearings for that lathe, and it isn't clear if they are as an "upgrade" or a replacement.  I downloaded the parts diagram they have for the machine, and it seems to show roller bearings.  I have sent them a message asking them to clarify.

[mmagliaro]

Hahah, true.

Have you watched the This Old Tony series on the mini-lathe?

/>
https://www.hackster.io/news/this-old-tony-introduces-and-upgrades-a-700-mini-lathe-a1b132b20df6

Yep, I've seen those videos.  And that is exactly what I do NOT want to have to do.  He is starting with a pretty cheap
machine.  I think he says he spent $500 for that one.  I want one that I can uncrate and use.

[parkrrrr]

Thanks.  I am well aware of LMS's 8.5 x 20.   It is on my potential "short list".   It's getting a little spendy at about $1800, but it
has all the hot-button points, as you say, and it variable-speed with a 1000-watt motor 1 HP motor.  The other makers go to
belt or gear changing when the motor power gets that high.  And at 280 lbs, while it will be much more unwieldy for me to get into my garage and up on a bench, makes it much more rigid than the typical 100-pound hobby machines.

Yes, I know this is probably power and rigidity overkill for turning little N Scale parts.  But... the TOOL RULE prevails.  I do not want to do this again.  I want a nice machine if I'm going to do this.

I've heard it said that the finer the work, the more rigidity you need. And if you go watch some of Joe Pieczynski's videos on turning tiny parts, power is important, too. So it's possible that there is no overkill for N Scale.

You made me go take another look at the Grizzly stuff and their 8x16 looks pretty nice, too. Especially since the cost of shipping is just the gas to get to Bellingham and back. My wallet both thanks you and does not thank you.

[mmagliaro]

I've heard it said that the finer the work, the more rigidity you need. And if you go watch some of Joe Pieczynski's videos on turning tiny parts, power is important, too. So it's possible that there is no overkill for N Scale.

You made me go take another look at the Grizzly stuff and their 8x16 looks pretty nice, too. Especially since the cost of shipping is just the gas to get to Bellingham and back. My wallet both thanks you and does not thank you.

LOL!  The 8x16 would be the Grizzly I would buy if I go that route.  LMS got back to me (fast).  On their 8.5 x 20, the front spindle bearing is a tapered roller bearing, and the rear one is a ball bearing.  That's good enough for me.  That should make the spindle very sturdy and chatter-free.

[woodone]

Max, has I understand most of these small bench top lathes that come from China are about all the same.
If you check with LMS you will find many similar things.
If you already have a mill get a lathe the has the same spindle type (MT or R-8 )
Just wait till you start tooling your lathe- the cost of the lathe is just the start- I am sure you know this.
I have an old Atlas/Craftsman 6” lathe and it has cost a bunch to,upgrade.
To turn small parts you will need to use collets.
A three jaw chuck will not hold the close tolerances you will need. Ask me how I know?




Good luck with your search!

[peteski]

Max, seems to me that the machines you are lusting for would be ample for some really large scale model parts machining (like live steam garden railroads).  Do you really need all that for N scale machining?  What do you consider the lowly Sherline to be? A toy?   

[woodone]

Peteski,
A Sherline lathe is not a toy— BUT- You are starting out with a lathe that is without Motorized lead screw. $700.00 To start off with a very basic machine- then you start to add up the options and you will be real close to what a good bench top lathe would cost.
Like I said earlier, the tooling is what cost you the money has you go forward-
I would think that the bench top lathes would be a better investment.
There are a ton of attachments that would work on these.
I don’t recall what the Sherline’s main bead is made of, but the bench tops I have seen have a cast iron base.
You need a very strong and ridged base for close tolerances. JMO
 

[wm3798]

I was going to post a photo of the gadget I use the most, but of course, I can't find the gaddam thing.  It was just here a second ago!

Lee

[mmagliaro]

I don't consider a Sherline a toy.  But I want something with a more powerful motor and gears.  Indeed, I use my mill occasionally for beefier things than N Scale trains, so I want to get something heavier and more powerful than a Sherline.

Woodone, yes and yes on the spindle taper and collets.   I have an MT-3 spindle in my milling machine, and luckily, and lot of these China-built machines use an MT3 on their spindle (and an MT2 on the tailstock -- I'll never understand why they don't use the same taper there!)  So my collet chuck, drill chuck, and other MT-3 pieces will all fit these lathes.
I had an MT3 collet chuck I bought years ago from Micro-Mark when I bought the mill.  It isn't marked (i.e. it isn't ER-32, ER-16, or any of the other standard collet types).  But it was lousy and had more run-out than my 3-jaw drill chuck!  About 6 mos ago, I found a nice MT3 ER-32 collet chuck and some collets and bought them.  That baby has run-out under .001" in my mill which is what I'm shooting for.

Despite that, yes, I'm aware that after dropping in the neighborhood of $1500 for a lathe, I will spend another $500 in short order on fixtures for it.