Author Topic: Need some ballasting ideas  (Read 668 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Maletrain

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1447
  • Respect: +189
Re: Need some ballasting ideas
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2020, 11:03:37 AM »
0
Maybe I am not fully understanding what the finished model is supposed to look like.  (And I just took a long trip over the old Pennsy mainline and do not remember what those pole bases looked like.  :facepalm:)

But, if the poles are supposed to be sitting on concrete pads surrounded by ballast, rather than just the steel poles disappearing into the ballast,why not make the connection (between the removable pole and the layout) be between the pole and its base, instead of between the base and the layout?

randgust

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1671
  • Respect: +770
    • Randgust N Scale Kits
Re: Need some ballasting ideas
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2020, 11:17:26 AM »
0
I'm into a situation like that on my T-trak module with all my oil rigs - they are lots of moving parts and have to both pocket into the scenery yet remain removable for maintenance.

Mine all have .020 wire 'legs' into the scenery/plywood but the concrete styrene bases are a similar situation.   My challenge is to not contaminate the mounting holes I already have with glue, scenery materials, flocking, etc.  I'm plugging the holes with removable tapered toothpicks wiped in Vaseline, and covering the base area with masking tape cut with an Xacto knife.   I'll similarly wrap the styrene wellhead bases as I scenic around them, but I still expect to have to clean up with tweezers and Xacto.

One thing I will comment is that you want to hit that ballast pocket with non-diluted glue after it's been thoroughly soaked.  I used to use a little soap for a spray presoak and that doesn't work anywhere near as well as an alcohol one - that's had much better results.



Lemosteam

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4166
  • Gender: Male
  • PRR, The Standard Railroad of my World
  • Respect: +1327
    • Designer at Keystone Details
Re: Need some ballasting ideas
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2020, 11:30:22 AM »
0
Maybe I am not fully understanding what the finished model is supposed to look like.  (And I just took a long trip over the old Pennsy mainline and do not remember what those pole bases looked like.  :facepalm:)

But, if the poles are supposed to be sitting on concrete pads surrounded by ballast, rather than just the steel poles disappearing into the ballast,why not make the connection (between the removable pole and the layout) be between the pole and its base, instead of between the base and the layout?

Sorry for the crude images, hoping this will help:



wazzou

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4543
  • #GoCougs
  • Respect: +539
Re: Need some ballasting ideas
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2020, 11:46:15 AM »
0
Sort of like pole condemns.   :facepalm: :trollface:


You had a solid line but fumbled the spelling man.  Condoms.

Bryan

Member of NPRHA, Modeling Committee Member
http://www.nprha.org/
Member of MRHA


wazzou

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4543
  • #GoCougs
  • Respect: +539
Re: Need some ballasting ideas
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2020, 11:48:49 AM »
0
Sorry for the crude images, hoping this will help:




Couldn't a base be designed that allowed for the poles to just slide into the permanent ballasted bases?
Bryan

Member of NPRHA, Modeling Committee Member
http://www.nprha.org/
Member of MRHA


Lemosteam

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4166
  • Gender: Male
  • PRR, The Standard Railroad of my World
  • Respect: +1327
    • Designer at Keystone Details
Re: Need some ballasting ideas
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2020, 11:55:38 AM »
0
Those etches are 0.25mm thick, that would get awfully fussy to try to re-install.  Don't want the bases showing when I take low vantage images of my steam for a flyover look.  I just want to pretend either steam or electric main (and Yes I know steam ran under the wires too).

The magnets will also help me to store them in a safe spot on the ceiling when not in use.

In short I just want to place them, ballast around them, and then lift them out without ruining the ballast.  I suppose I could design a thin printed sleeve that slides over the current base, and let the ballast glue to that while protecting the pole base from permanent attachment but I thought if I just left a raw ballast socket it would look less obvious when the poles are removed.


MK

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2340
  • Respect: +316
Re: Need some ballasting ideas
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2020, 11:56:38 AM »
0

You had a solid line but fumbled the spelling man.  Condoms.

Fixed it!  Damn auto correction!   :x

jdcolombo

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1872
  • Respect: +628
Re: Need some ballasting ideas
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2020, 12:02:53 PM »
0
Ah.

Now I get it.

I would worry that if you don't use some sort of sleeve, the top edges of the "ballast socket" will eventually crumble as you insert and remove the poles.  My experience with Ntrak modules bears this out.  Even if you are extremely careful, there just isn't anything to support the edge of the ballast except the glue, and the glue isn't that robust. I'd use a sleeve, which will protect the edges of the ballast and give it something to adhere to.

John C.

Lemosteam

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4166
  • Gender: Male
  • PRR, The Standard Railroad of my World
  • Respect: +1327
    • Designer at Keystone Details
Re: Need some ballasting ideas
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2020, 12:15:46 PM »
0
Ah.

Now I get it.

I would worry that if you don't use some sort of sleeve, the top edges of the "ballast socket" will eventually crumble as you insert and remove the poles.  My experience with Ntrak modules bears this out.  Even if you are extremely careful, there just isn't anything to support the edge of the ballast except the glue, and the glue isn't that robust. I'd use a sleeve, which will protect the edges of the ballast and give it something to adhere to.

John C.

Point taken.  I don't think this will be a high use occurrence.  It's really for photography of the lift-out portion of the layout (far right upper). 



The permanent portion of the layout (left side portion) will rarely see them removed I especially since the substation will be a fixture on the layout.






wazzou

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4543
  • #GoCougs
  • Respect: +539
Re: Need some ballasting ideas
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2020, 12:23:28 PM »
0
Those etches are 0.25mm thick, that would get awfully fussy to try to re-install.  Don't want the bases showing when I take low vantage images of my steam for a flyover look.  I just want to pretend either steam or electric main (and Yes I know steam ran under the wires too).

The magnets will also help me to store them in a safe spot on the ceiling when not in use.

In short I just want to place them, ballast around them, and then lift them out without ruining the ballast.  I suppose I could design a thin printed sleeve that slides over the current base, and let the ballast glue to that while protecting the pole base from permanent attachment but I thought if I just left a raw ballast socket it would look less obvious when the poles are removed.


Won't the bare square cutouts in the ballast shoulders be just as distracting?
Bryan

Member of NPRHA, Modeling Committee Member
http://www.nprha.org/
Member of MRHA


Lemosteam

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4166
  • Gender: Male
  • PRR, The Standard Railroad of my World
  • Respect: +1327
    • Designer at Keystone Details
Re: Need some ballasting ideas
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2020, 12:58:43 PM »
0

Won't the bare square cutouts in the ballast shoulders be just as distracting?

Possibly but it will depend on the camera angle.  If the bases were left above ballast, they would be completely obvious regardless of camera angle.

Ed Kapuscinski

  • Global Moderator
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 18416
  • Has a degree in American History & Culture.
  • Respect: +2482
    • Conrail 1285
Re: Need some ballasting ideas
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2020, 02:05:44 PM »
0
The other thing you can do is just... be gentle while ballasting around the pads.

dougnelson

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 983
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +834
    • PRR N Scale
Re: Need some ballasting ideas
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2020, 02:47:25 PM »
0
John: I would do a test.  I do not think that glue will be a problem for the catenary poles.  Assuming you are using diluted white glue on the ballast - it works for ballast due to capillary action (when the ballast is pre-wetted).  Diluted white glue should not have much effect on the metal cat pole bases.

jdcolombo

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1872
  • Respect: +628
Re: Need some ballasting ideas
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2020, 03:08:13 PM »
0
Point taken.  I don't think this will be a high use occurrence.  It's really for photography of the lift-out portion of the layout (far right upper). 

The permanent portion of the layout (left side portion) will rarely see them removed I especially since the substation will be a fixture on the layout.


Got it.  In that case, I think vaseline will work.

John C.

Lemosteam

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4166
  • Gender: Male
  • PRR, The Standard Railroad of my World
  • Respect: +1327
    • Designer at Keystone Details
Re: Need some ballasting ideas
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2020, 03:59:20 PM »
0
John: I would do a test.  I do not think that glue will be a problem for the catenary poles.  Assuming you are using diluted white glue on the ballast - it works for ballast due to capillary action (when the ballast is pre-wetted).  Diluted white glue should not have much effect on the metal cat pole bases.

@dougnelson, the bases are FUD of course, but I understand your point.