Author Topic: PRR D16sb research for a build  (Read 2331 times)

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randgust

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2020, 09:43:10 PM »
+1
So, anyway, I got an old, beat-up copy of the Cyclopedia for under $20.   WOW, what a book.   How did I ever miss that?   It also turns out that's the source for the mystery Heisler drawing image I've seen for years and always wondered where it came from.

Got the plan out of it, precisely resized it to HO as a .JPG ( a whole lot easier to measure precisely on an HO plan rather than N, BTW) and have a question.

The cab length measures 7' 9" back wall to front wall.  How does that compare to the Trix B6 cab?   How far off is it?

Kiasutha

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2020, 12:14:59 AM »
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Randy:
Going by my Mascot scale rule, the B-6 cab is (as close a I can see) 8'9"- one foot too long.

Lemosteam

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2020, 07:37:10 AM »
0
So, anyway, I got an old, beat-up copy of the Cyclopedia for under $20.   WOW, what a book.   How did I ever miss that?   It also turns out that's the source for the mystery Heisler drawing image I've seen for years and always wondered where it came from.

Got the plan out of it, precisely resized it to HO as a .JPG ( a whole lot easier to measure precisely on an HO plan rather than N, BTW) and have a question.

The cab length measures 7' 9" back wall to front wall.  How does that compare to the Trix B6 cab?   How far off is it?

@randgust , I might suggest trying a more accurate method of scaling a printed copy as the horizontal proportion can be different than the vertical.  After all a printout is an optical conversion from image to paper.

As a CAD designer for many years, I have had to "REMASTER" actual part blueprints into 3D models.  And as you might imagine, many dimensions were missing.  I would then employ the following method to remaster that part to the drawing (and then corroborate from physical part measurements).

There are known horizontal and vertical dimensions on your drawing.  Use an accurate scale, or better yet a digital caliper to measure off the drawing. In this case the wheelbase horizontally.  Draw a line through the centers of the axle on the paper and when you measure, measure along this line. Ii try to find the visual center of the printed line- after all they have width too.

Similarly, measure the un-dimensioned lines of the features you want in this case the cab length.

Create a mathematical proportion of the known dimension vs. the actual caliper measurement and this will give you a ratio to apply to all horizontal measurements from that point on, write that on the print.

Do the same for vertical measurements and you will see the ratios are slightly different.

Apply these ratios to all of your measurements.  Using this method makes the scale of the printout irrelevant, however the larger the print, the finer the printed lines, i.e. getting closer to their imaginary "center".

It soulnds like alot of work, but it really isn't.

randgust

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2020, 08:15:12 AM »
0
I simply edit the .JPG and push it into Word and start printing it and resizing it, adjusting it until the dimensioned vertical and horizontal measurements precisely line up with a scale ruler.   I'll go through half a dozen sheets of paper that way, but it's a lot easier than recalculating dimensions when ANY printed drawing can be off against the stated dimensions on it.

I did use that proportional calculation scale method for many years off of photos and drawings (pre-Photoshop) and used it to scratchbuild many of the structures on my layout if I had something as simple as a door height, rail length, or almost anything to work from.  It does work.

And yeah, that's what I thought, the cab is about a foot long.   But the drawings are good enough along with the photos I can scratch it.

I had to go purely from photos on my steel Lima 2-6-0 cab as the original cab was wood on the drawings.   Really hard but worth it.   It was kind of painful because the first time I tried it I had to admit the entire cab was about a foot too tall and I got to do it all over.  At least here I have the right drawings to work from.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2020, 09:29:46 AM by randgust »

Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2020, 11:32:14 AM »
0
You know about the PRR cab on Shapeways, right?

https://www.shapeways.com/product/NP6SE6DCR/n-scale-pennsylvania-h9-e6-g5-cab?optionId=12210016&li=marketplace

It's understandable if you don't, their search is SO BAD.

randgust

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2020, 11:52:10 AM »
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Nope, hadn't found that one and I've searched for PRR everything in N and 1:160 and cabs and.....

Wow, is that a classic case of the 3D looks spot on and the FUD print looks like striated crap.  Worth a $10 bet though?  Probably.

johnb

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2020, 11:59:47 AM »
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So, anyway, I got an old, beat-up copy of the Cyclopedia for under $20.   WOW, what a book.   How did I ever miss that?   It also turns out that's the source for the mystery Heisler drawing image I've seen for years and always wondered where it came from.
got a copy on my desk...

Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2020, 12:02:42 PM »
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Nope, hadn't found that one and I've searched for PRR everything in N and 1:160 and cabs and.....

Wow, is that a classic case of the 3D looks spot on and the FUD print looks like striated crap.  Worth a $10 bet though?  Probably.

My dad has two. I think they look ok from what I remember.

dougnelson

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2020, 12:34:11 PM »
+2
Here is artwork for an etched brass cab for an E6 Atlantic that I did several years ago, as well as some source drawings.






Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2020, 12:58:36 PM »
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Whoa. That's game changing!


PiperguyUMD

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2020, 01:03:07 PM »
+1

https://www.shapeways.com/product/NP6SE6DCR/n-scale-pennsylvania-h9-e6-g5-cab?optionId=12210016&li=marketplace


@Ed Kapuscinski. It was a long time ago when I drew those up! The intent was to cook up a H9 kit for the Bachmann  2-8-0 mechanism, then I realized the size difference between a scale H9 boiler/cab and the mechanism And gave up. I figured the least I could do for all the Pennsy fans was to make the pieces available.

randgust

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2020, 01:39:50 PM »
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The shapeways one looks really close... not sure about the roof ventilator panel, and the D16 cab rear edge does not have the 'lip/lifter' across the back (easily removed) and it needs to have transition curves between the rear wall and the cab overhang added.   The model shot looks pretty nice.

And that etched one is a great design... if nothing else, a good guide for cutting styrene and adding Archer rivets.

The ATSF steel cab that I got from Shapeways was so badly striated it looked like wood paneling.  I had to add a .005 overlay on the sides and redo the rivets, end result was great though.

I'm not quite ready to really jump on the project for real until I see if I can actually mount a Rivarossi 68" driver on a Bachmann axle... it's not a natural thing as the axle diameter is significantly larger.. but if that works...

For the few that might have not seen it - this is my scratchbuild on an Atlas 2-6-0 chassis of my Lima 2-6-0 - Hickory Valley 5 - from drawings I got from the California State Railroad Museum drawing collection.  That's a styrene cab and brass-tube boiler.   Locomotive is just about the same size as a D16 so that's why I think I can pull this off.
http://www.randgust.com/HVR5042%20final%205.jpg
« Last Edit: February 11, 2020, 01:54:46 PM by randgust »

Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2020, 03:08:25 PM »
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@Ed Kapuscinski. It was a long time ago when I drew those up! The intent was to cook up a H9 kit for the Bachmann  2-8-0 mechanism, then I realized the size difference between a scale H9 boiler/cab and the mechanism And gave up. I figured the least I could do for all the Pennsy fans was to make the pieces available.

Oh man. I thought so!

Have you looked at a PRR H6 instead?

I'm currently in the process of faking a PRR styled Consol using a Bachmann one and a bunch of detail parts. It won't be correct, but it'll be fine for a fake tourist railroad.

Have you considered making a version of that cab specifically for the Model Power 2-6-0? With that cab it's actually a decently close approximation of a PRR F3 which happened to come with and without the annoying belpaire firebox.

wm3798

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2020, 10:51:26 AM »
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As I'm thumbing through the pages this morning the banner at the top rotated to the PRR 2-8-0 that the late great @3rdRail built...  It's really a solid model, and given the time he did it he must have rendered it in clay using the rib of another locomotive.

I can't help but wonder whatever became his work?

@randgust , you could probably cast your lot with Shapeways for the cab, the catalog picture is probably an early print.  I think they are upping their game on the quality of output these days.  But for the finest detail, I would go with the brass etching if it can be pulled off.

Lee
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randgust

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Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2020, 08:46:45 PM »
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The Bachmann axles are steel, but I successfully turned them down to the Rivarossi diameter of the wheel holes by holding them against a dremel diamond abrasive disk as no file I own would touch them.   I'm JB Welding the axle to a set of Rivarossi drivers; I'll mangle up one of the old Bachmann 4-4-0 frame/bodies as a test to hold them.   I'm concerned about cocentric and quartering but as the drivers are geared, you plan on a bit of rod slop.   But this is all just stuff from the scrap pile so far.   I'm reluctantly scrapping out my 'hardly ever used' Rivarossi 4-6-2 due to severe zinc pest on the frame.   I'd saved it for years but this is a good alternative project.

I think one of the reasons that I just have to try this is that my very first 'electric train' wasn't Lionel, even then I was the odd man out and I had American Flyer - the Casey Jones set - which had a very PRR-style 4-4-0 that at the time I didn't recognize at all.   But any SPF that ever sees it does, and it was imprinted on me fairly early.
https://traindr.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/american-flyer-locomotive-21668-casey-jones.jpg