Author Topic: PRR D16sb research for a build  (Read 2155 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

randgust

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1671
  • Respect: +770
    • Randgust N Scale Kits
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2020, 09:20:03 AM »
0
Thanks for the scan, Chris, that gets me on the search here.

Now for checking almost every steam mechanism I can think of to see if anything else has a 7'9" wheelbase spacing or darn close.    I'm not necessarily looking at a 4-wheel frame, any 68" drivered 6-wheel frame might be modified...  I was certainly surprised to see on my Jamco 4-6-2 project that ATSF had interchangeable main rods and many parts between the 4-8-4 classes and the 3400 4-6-2.  Axle distances, main rods, cylinders...all the same.   

I agree the B6 cab is close...  I'm looking at what it would do if you cut the front wall off and shortened it to the proper length between the front window and the cab wall, maybe filed the rear windows larger.   It's just plastic.

And that boiler just looks fat to me.   You could make a 4-4-2 out of that, maybe... seems to have similar dimensions, but that doesn't look right to me for this.   Like I said, making a boiler doesn't scare me any more, but getting a frame right... that's where I cheated on the 2-6-0 and used the Atlas frame and running gear.  Because I plan on putting the motor in the tender with an NWSL universal I'm not governed by where the worm gear ends up as to motor placement.

I remember the Hello Dolly scenes.... but look in the background of that shot and see the elevated gate tower.   Do they still have that somewhere?  I don't remember seeing it anymore.    Maybe it is where the LEMO tower is now.

Ed Kapuscinski

  • Global Moderator
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 18416
  • Has a degree in American History & Culture.
  • Respect: +2482
    • Conrail 1285
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2020, 09:37:03 AM »
0
The D16sb is my holy grail of steam.

And something even higher than the holy grail for my dad.

I am all in for whatever I can do to 1. Help this build along. 2. Make an easy path for future builds (because if it's straight forward enough, I need to make 2).

ChristianJDavis1

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 419
  • Gender: Male
  • I almost killed DKS.
  • Respect: +121
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2020, 12:26:34 PM »
0
Thanks for the scan, Chris, that gets me on the search here.

Now for checking almost every steam mechanism I can think of to see if anything else has a 7'9" wheelbase spacing or darn close.    I'm not necessarily looking at a 4-wheel frame, any 68" drivered 6-wheel frame might be modified...  I was certainly surprised to see on my Jamco 4-6-2 project that ATSF had interchangeable main rods and many parts between the 4-8-4 classes and the 3400 4-6-2.  Axle distances, main rods, cylinders...all the same.   

I agree the B6 cab is close...  I'm looking at what it would do if you cut the front wall off and shortened it to the proper length between the front window and the cab wall, maybe filed the rear windows larger.   It's just plastic.

And that boiler just looks fat to me.   You could make a 4-4-2 out of that, maybe... seems to have similar dimensions, but that doesn't look right to me for this.   Like I said, making a boiler doesn't scare me any more, but getting a frame right... that's where I cheated on the 2-6-0 and used the Atlas frame and running gear.  Because I plan on putting the motor in the tender with an NWSL universal I'm not governed by where the worm gear ends up as to motor placement.

I remember the Hello Dolly scenes.... but look in the background of that shot and see the elevated gate tower.   Do they still have that somewhere?  I don't remember seeing it anymore.    Maybe it is where the LEMO tower is now.

I believe the B6 cab is metal like he rest of the shell, not plastic. Not sure if it makes too much of a difference to you, seeing the work you have done previously. I am following this build myself. How close is a Model Power 4-4-0 as a starting point? Build on that from the drivers up?
- Christian J. Davis

muktown128

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 593
  • Respect: +37
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2020, 12:52:24 PM »
0
@Lemosteam posted pics of a stripped B6 shell earlier in this thread showing the cab and boiler are a single piece of cast metal. 

randgust

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1671
  • Respect: +770
    • Randgust N Scale Kits
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2020, 01:34:30 PM »
0
I ended up with a resin copy of one...somehow...not entirely remember how.

I also have an MP 4-4-0 junker in my parts collection, and it is just..big.    I know when I looked at it before I rejected it due to driver size and being a heck of a lot bigger than about anything, but that was before I came up with the idea of swapping drivers around surfaced.

What makes stuff like this interesting is that with 3D printing and Shapeways, you can't just limit yourself to what's already there.   I was pretty surprised a couple times when I asked designers to rerun a model and see if it could be printed in another scale, and it could be, and was.  And, as everybody knows, the search feature on Shapeways is beyond awful, so you can even search for the same thing minutes apart and get different results, or have designers send you links that are ALREADY ON SHAPEWAYS that didn't show up in the same search.    I had that happen on Walter Vail's stuff. 

The Jamco Junker project altered my perspective on this kind of project; I got the locomotive from 'auction', the fantastic tender from Dirk (ATSF models), the trailing truck and cab from Shapeways.   All-out no-holds barred resource search on what could work.

At the moment, the biggest focus is finding a modifiable frame with two axles 7'9" spaced that can accommodate 68" drivers, and with that the rods and cylinders.   I've scratchbuilt cabs, I can do it with good drawings, but if there's something already out there I'm not too proud to use it.  I'm not into hacking up expensive new stuff, but there's sure a lot of legacy 'parts only' and 'damaged' stuff out there if you are patient; my Jamco was the victim of what appeared to be a nose dive onto the floor followed by unloving storage.

OK, so looking at the B6 on Spookshow:  http://www.spookshow.net/loco/trix060.html

Is it my imagination, or is the axle spacing unequal?    Can anybody measure the axle centers in N scale feet on the lead to middle driver, and middle to end driver?    I agree that the cylinders and crosshead guides might have some potential here, and the gear tower goes to the middle driver.   I know the driver diameter is wrong, but I also know that a Trix frame was well-designed and solid...
« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 01:56:00 PM by randgust »

Lemosteam

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4166
  • Gender: Male
  • PRR, The Standard Railroad of my World
  • Respect: +1327
    • Designer at Keystone Details
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2020, 08:41:01 PM »
0
Lou D had cast a run many years ago- even some without a Belpaire firebox.

randgust

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1671
  • Respect: +770
    • Randgust N Scale Kits
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2020, 09:04:28 PM »
+1
Here's what I measured up on what I have on hand to check that seemed possible:



So, that's a surprise.    The ideal combination - so far - would be to put Rivarossi wheels on the Bachmann frame....  Which is naturally tender drive anyway.

The Bachmann frame/boiler  will have to be tremendously whacked up, but you have a flyworm in there, and the axles can either be turned or the drivers drilled or a little of both.   I have scrap drivers and and a scrap frame, so this is a low-cost experiment.   That also solves the problem of rods fitting the drivers, the Bachmann rods aren't half bad and are metal.   

But if somebody else finds something with 7'9" axle spacing, speak up!

Lemosteam

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4166
  • Gender: Male
  • PRR, The Standard Railroad of my World
  • Respect: +1327
    • Designer at Keystone Details
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2020, 09:19:20 PM »
0
Nice chart Randy!

narrowminded

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1818
  • Respect: +600
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2020, 09:54:42 PM »
0
Here's what I measured up on what I have on hand to check that seemed possible:



So, that's a surprise.    The ideal combination - so far - would be to put Rivarossi wheels on the Bachmann frame....  Which is naturally tender drive anyway.
 and the axles can either be turned or the drivers drilled or a little of both.   I have scrap drivers and and a scrap frame, so this is a low-cost experiment.   That also solves the problem of rods fitting the drivers, the Bachmann rods aren't half bad and are metal.   

But if somebody else finds something with 7'9" axle spacing, speak up!

@randgust If you have some axle, gear, wheel cobbling to be done give me a shout.  I'll bet we can get you where you need to be. 8)
« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 09:57:19 PM by narrowminded »
Mark G.

randgust

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1671
  • Respect: +770
    • Randgust N Scale Kits
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2020, 04:35:23 PM »
0
I don't have one - but if anybody has a Bachmann 4-6-0 it sure looks worth investigating as the drivers look kind of wide-spaced between axles and the driver diameter is undetermined.   Anybody up for a measurement?

http://www.spookshow.net/loco/spec460.html

SkipGear

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1872
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +101
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2020, 08:53:25 PM »
0
Bachmann 2-6-0

7'6" Between Driver 1 and 2
6'7" Between Driver 2 and 3

Bachmann 4-6-0

6'3" Between Drivers 1 and 2 and 3
Tony Hines

randgust

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1671
  • Respect: +770
    • Randgust N Scale Kits
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2020, 03:47:01 PM »
0
Never occurred to me on the Bachmann 2-6-0 - but what's the driver diameter on that?

http://www.spookshow.net/loco/spec260.html

I don't think its impossible.... the #1 and #2 axles are geared

Chris333

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 13773
  • Respect: +2893
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2020, 04:15:19 PM »
0
I got .349" wheels on the Bachmann 2-6-0. Yes #1 and 2 are gear driven.

randgust

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1671
  • Respect: +770
    • Randgust N Scale Kits
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2020, 09:13:07 PM »
0
Huh.   56" by my calculation.    Spacing close, drivers not.   So far still looking like attacking an old Bachmann.

Chris333

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 13773
  • Respect: +2893
Re: PRR D16sb research for a build
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2020, 12:17:21 AM »
+1
Here is the plan the Bachmann 2-6-0 is based on: