Author Topic: What's the protiotype for the Atlas/RR 40' "short" steel boxcar?  (Read 1561 times)

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OldEastRR

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I looked it up on Spookshow's site but he only guessed it was supposed to be an X29. It looks more like the NYC's version of the X29, except for the ends. Is there any other car that this might be? The designers of N models got their specs from who knows what, seems like. 
Were there any other short height steel box cars from any other RR?

PGE_Modeller

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Re: What's the protiotype for the Atlas/RR 40' "short" steel boxcar?
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2020, 09:08:09 PM »
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Sorry, misread the OP and the reply here relates to the Micro-Trains "X29".  The rivet patterns on both the sides and the ends are a good match for the photographs and drawings of the PRR X29 standard box car and the X28 automobile box car shown on pages 116 - 119 the 1928 Car Builders' Cyclopedia.  The height of the car body is a better match for the X28, which had an inside height of 9'-3" compared to the X29's inside height of 8'-7".  Note that the X28 was a door-and-a half car rather than a single door car.  The width over eaves of the Micro-Trains car, however,  scales out at 9'-4" compared to 8'-9.5" for either of the X28 or X29 and the length over the end sheets scales out at 41'-7" compared to 42'-0.5" for both the X28 and X29.  So, summing up, the car body is 8" too tall for an X29 and both 6.5" too wide and 5.5" too short for either an X28 or an X29.  Those discrepancies, however, won't stop me from using it to represent the "token" X29 that the late Bill Hewlett photographed on the Pacific Great Eastern at Squamish, BC in 1954.  I just have to change the car number and the reweigh date.

Cheers,

ncbqguy

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Re: What's the protiotype for the Atlas/RR 40' "short" steel boxcar?
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2020, 10:47:58 PM »
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In truth the “prototype” is likely an HO car previously made for AHM.   Since Micro-Trains and Red Caboose/Fox Valley have X29s and Red Caboose/Fox Valley and Atlas have the ARA 1932 car (with Atlas having several variations) it really doesn’t matter.   Spookshow calls the R.R. Atlas (and Mehano clone that followed) sort of an X29 that’s about it.   Oh, the semi-scarce opening door Life-Like car with doorknob rivets is another one without a clear pedigree.
Charlie Vlk

thomasjmdavis

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Re: What's the protiotype for the Atlas/RR 40' "short" steel boxcar?
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2020, 11:18:41 PM »
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The double row rivets on the Atlas car do looks X-29-like, but the roof doesn't (unless something like the Atlas/Rivarossi roof appeared on cars rebuilt in the 50s or some such).

On the MT car, I think that is what they refer to as their "40' USRA steel boxcar."  Now, the USRA car was never built, but a lot of near copies were built by a number of roads.  Personally, I think the Red Caboose is a much better rendition of the X-29. To my eye, the MT looks rather like the BLI NYC car, but with ladders rather than grabirons on the corners.  Definitely bears a resemblance to many early steel cars. 

That said, I also have a number of the "other road" Red Caboose X-29s. and I wonder if the MT car might not be closer to the prototypes of some of those.
Tom D.

I have a mind like a steel trap...a VERY rusty, old steel trap.

JMaurer1

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Re: What's the protiotype for the Atlas/RR 40' "short" steel boxcar?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2020, 11:37:16 AM »
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I'm assuming that we are talking about the Mehano (Yugoslavia) 40' Steel Box Car (http://www.spookshow.net/freight/yugo40box.html)

At one point I was trying to gather the info for our NTrak website that would have the prototype of most of the available N scale rolling stock. I never finished it since so many cars have so many different possible prototypes, but I do have some info on this car, although I won't commit to the accuracy since that is what killed this project in the first place. Surprising enough, most of this info came from Spookshows old website and I can no longer find it on his new site:

Years ago, I thought this was a Pennsylvania Railroad X-29 boxcar. Then I saw the beautiful Red Caboose brand X-29 and thought, no, no it isn't. But now, after careful checking, I find it IS a model—albeit 1970 quality- of an X-29 of a particular variation, from the bottom up to just below the roof, but NOT including the roof.

Some of the cars have one reefer ice hatch on each end the roof due to some confusion when they were being made. I also have a bunch of LL steel reefers that had this same problem (on those cars I cut the extra roofwalk off and cast some ice hatches to glue there so I could have a 'more accurate' steel reefer...remember, this was over 20 years ago and well before MT and others came out with a correct steel reefer).



Rivarrosi originally made this for Atlas. Then Rivarrosi stopped, and Mehano in Yugoslavia planned to make the same car for Atlas as a replacement. At one time it was also sold under Lifelike name.

The special feature of this car, which is shared by both the PRR X-29 and the NYC USRA-steel prototypes is the seam between side panels with the double row of rivets. This is where two side panel plates overlap, and the seam is riveted at both sides of the overlap.

Other features of the model-
NO fishbelly underframe.
Straight side sill.
10 steel panels on each side with double rivet rows
6 foot wide Youngstown steel (corrugated) door
Ajax brake wheel
Ladders (as opposed to just rungs)
Dreadnaught ends with 4-3 ribs.
Metal rectangular panel roof with 12 panels.

The model matches the major dimensions of the X-29. 40’6” inside length. 8’7” inside height.
The model is 10 scale feet wide where the prototype has an 8’ 9” inside width.

The prototype was built over an 11 year period 1923-1934 with lots of variations.

Panel doors versus corrugated doors.
Dreadnaught ends versus flat ends.
Vertical brake wheel VS Ajax end-mounted brake wheel.
The model in question corresponds to SOME x-29S... except FOR THE ROOF.
The prototypes had metal roofing that laid flat with seams hardly showing.

I can’t find any listing that shows that these models were lettered for the Pennsy which they actually resemble, although Atlas once had them in Penn Central.

Except for the roof, this model corresponds to SOME prototype X-29s, especially those built between 1929 and 1934.

Still looking at the old old Atlas/ Lifelike X-29. It is a bit crude by the standards of recent models. However, it shares with other X-29 models the 10-panel sides, the double-rivet seams, the straight side sill and the overall dimensions of the prototype X-29, except for being a bit wide. It has an end “sort of” like a Dreadnaught end, and some kind of ribs.

If you want to model an X-29 with corrugated or Dreadnaught ends, this is the ONLY N model with “anything like” corrugated ends. They are not MUCH like any specific corrugated ends, but they give somewhat the impression, whereas the distinctive X-29 flat end really sticks out as something entirely different. So, this is a balancing act of one factor vs another.

Another way of looking at it, if you’ve got one or two of these cars, here is something they can be used for.

PRR #101763 Prototype Modeler October 1978 p.19
10-panel sides, Youngstowen-style corrugated door, Dreadnaught ends, Ajax hand brake.

PRR MOW #498040 Prototype Modeler October 1978 p.1,23.
This one has an end almost exactly like the Atlas/Lifelike model. Unfortunately, since it is in maintenance of way, it could only be used on a Pennsy layout, not in interchange service.

Erie Lackawanna #416024 Model Railroading April 1987 p.49
corrugated door, Dreadnaught ends 10 panel

That's what I have...actually I do have more but it has to do with how most of the RRs that the car came painted for never had anything close to this car and the one car that it should have come painted for - Pennsy, it was never offered. Hopefully that covered most of the question. LMK if there are any glaring mistakes since one day, I may actually put the info I have online...but only after getting a new flak vest.

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JMaurer1

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Re: What's the protiotype for the Atlas/RR 40' "short" steel boxcar?
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2020, 11:50:18 AM »
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Mostly off the subject: Here's the reefer version. Some of these had ONE ice hatch on each end, others had NO ice hatches.





The factory printing was TERRIBLE (even for 60s/70s standards, but the bodies were...the only thing available then if you wanted a steel reefer. I painting and decaled up something like 30+ of these in PFE (with the roofwalk cut and the other ice hatch added) only to later find out that Floquil's 'reefer orange' wasn't even close to PFE's actual orange. I know I still have the cars but never run them because they are so bright when put next to 'correctly painted' cars. I keep thinking that some day I will just weather the heck out of them so I can have my PFE reefer block.
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OldEastRR

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Re: What's the protiotype for the Atlas/RR 40' "short" steel boxcar?
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2020, 09:13:21 PM »
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Thanks for all the info. A off-version of an X29 sounds like a good choice to model.

nickelplate759

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Re: What's the protiotype for the Atlas/RR 40' "short" steel boxcar?
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2020, 11:28:59 PM »
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...
If you want to model an X-29 with corrugated or Dreadnaught ends, this is the ONLY N model with “anything like” corrugated ends. They are not MUCH like any specific corrugated ends, but they give somewhat the impression, whereas the distinctive X-29 flat end really sticks out as something entirely different. So, this is a balancing act of one factor vs another.
...

I'm pretty sure that Red Caboose did a version of the X-29 with Dreadnaught ends.
George
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I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.

OldEastRR

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Re: What's the protiotype for the Atlas/RR 40' "short" steel boxcar?
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2020, 03:51:05 AM »
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In case you were wondering where to get the one-ice-hatch-per-end reefers today ....

https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/model-power-n-83390-40-steel-reefer-railway-express-agency-6406/

thomasjmdavis

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Re: What's the protiotype for the Atlas/RR 40' "short" steel boxcar?
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2020, 10:09:54 AM »
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In case you were wondering where to get the one-ice-hatch-per-end reefers today ....

https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/model-power-n-83390-40-steel-reefer-railway-express-agency-6406/
I have one they released a few years back in the CN 1950s  black with green stripe express reefer scheme.  Beautiful lettering job. The only down side (besides the clunky roofwalk and only 2 of what should probably be 8 hatches) is that the green was apparently matched to a 30 year old car that was never repainted, and sat in the sun at a station for 30 years, so the green looks like-
http://www.railpictures.ca/?attachment_id=4927

Been replaced on my roster by GHQ 8 hatch reefers.
Tom D.

I have a mind like a steel trap...a VERY rusty, old steel trap.

Doug G.

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Re: What's the protiotype for the Atlas/RR 40' "short" steel boxcar?
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2020, 01:24:19 PM »
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Just to keep things straight, since the thread title specifies Atlas, the only road names Atlas released in this style are the ones on George's A1G site and these were made by Rivarossi. The others being shown are from other importers/distributors.

Doug
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 01:26:07 PM by Doug G. »
Atlas First Generation Motive Power and Treble-O-Lectric. Click on the link:
www.irwinsjournal.com/a1g/a1glocos/