WHY I DISLIKE LOC-SOUND DECODERS!

[jdcolombo]

Follow up for John C.
Pulled the decoder from loco- double checked all wiring and found no errors nor shorts.
Soldered jumpers to the decoder and hooked up to my decoder tester.
Was able to program- no problems. The only difference between the loco and the decoder tester would be the motor.
So for now all is well.
Tomorrow,  I will install said decoder into the loco- let you know how that works out.

Well, not quite correct.  When the decoder is installed, the electrical paths runs through the wheels, truck wipers, truck contact strips, frame, and then the connection to the motor.  When you connect the decoder directly to the tester, you eliminate all this.  It is possible that there is a voltage drop or capacitance or resistance issue that just slightly interferes with the communication to the decoder when the signal is running through the wheels, wipers, etc.  If the new versions of the software are more sensitive to these things, that could be the issue.  But whatever.  Glad the programming worked with the direct connection!

John C.

[nightmare0331]

On a sidenote, I would love to see pictures of how you did this install.

Enjoy!

Kelley.
www.dufordmodelworks.com

[woodone]

Well there seems to be several posts to give some feed back to.
Going try to give replies last to first. One at a time.
0331- photos here on the Railwire are not my strong suite!
Send me a PM with your e-mail add. And I can send photos to you direct.

[woodone]

John C. Once I get a decoder issue on my programming track- I use a set of jumpers to by pass wheels and other contact  places.
What was a mystery to me was the loco would program the address with my Power Cab and then run?

[woodone]

Rick & Carl, Not sure what version of LP is running- have to check- I do use Microsoft Edge on my lap top where all my DCC programs are. I use three devises for computer stuff. The I Pad when I am looking on line and post things-The lap top for DCC, AND a PC for other stuff -online orders and e mail. Depends on where I might be when I may use one or the other.

[woodone]

Um, you did that by saying that you hate ESU but like Tsunamis.  Liking one and disliking another sounds to me like a comparison.   But whatever. . .

Peteski, if you read my first post- I did not say I hated ESU ‘s  I said I dislike them, then tried to explain why. There a BIG difference of hate and dislike!
I did not even note a Tsunami, YOU did.
I also explained to you why I was working with this decoder.
I do respect your knowledge, but your post did not address the problem I was having.
I did look at your link you noted, but have yet to understand all that was covered?

[peteski]

Peteski, if you read my first post- I did not say I hated ESU ‘s  I said I dislike them, then tried to explain why. There a BIG difference of hate and dislike!
I did not even note a Tsunami, YOU did.
I also explained to you why I was working with this decoder.
I do respect your knowledge, but your post did not address the problem I was having.
I did look at your link you noted, but have yet to understand all that was covered?

You're right, reading your initial my brain made up the love-hate (ESU/Tsunami) thing. I apologize.  You dislike dealing with LokSound and enjoy working with Tsunamis. Is that better? 
Since I had no direct experience with the problem you're seeing, but I have seen similar issue being currency discussed on groups.io, I posted a lint to that thread. You're right, there is a lot of stuff being thrown at the problem in that thread.  Actually, your problem was solved by programming the decoder hardwired directly to the LokProgrammer. I'm not sure if that was even tried in the groups.io thread.  Maybe we (I) should tell them?

[woodone]

Well one thing for sure is that there was not a problem with the sound file, nor the version that the LP is running on my lap-top.
I had a hard time understanding why my Power Cap set the address and operated the loco? But I could not program, with the LP?
Maybe it is a power thing, the Cab using more power in the program mode, the LP puts out less?
Would there be a way to measure the difference?
AND yes share the information with all interested.
And yes I do prefer to work with the Tsunami’s over the ESU. Mostly be cause of the time it takes to program them.

[tehachapifan]

FWIW, in all my sound installs, I installed the decoder in the loco first and then uploaded the sound file with the loco on the LokProgrammer programming track. Never had a problem like you describe (yet, anyway).

[woodone]

Yea, I know. Most times I do the same. The drop in micro decoder does not have any wires that are soldered to it, so I just went ahead and installed it. You have to solder leads to the decoder before you can hook up to a decoder tester.

[RBrodzinsky]

Even for the drop-in Selects, I’ve always soldered leads to them and programmed on the tester, first. But, I have never come across an instance where I can program the decoder (via LP) on tester but not in the loco (except when stay alive caps interfere). This is just weird, but glad you got it programmed.

[Jim Starbuck]

I’ve tested/ programmed the drop in boards by soldering the speaker leads which you need to do anyway then using test leads with a small alligator clip on one end and bare tinned wire at the other that goes into the Loktester for the motor and track leads.
I suppose if you did a lot of these you could make up a harness with an 8 pin on one end and clips on the other.
I’ve only had one Loksound balk at taking a sound file while installed in the engine but that was a v5 Micro I put in my BLI switcher. It eventually took the file though.

[peteski]

Well one thing for sure is that there was not a problem with the sound file, nor the version that the LP is running on my lap-top.
I had a hard time understanding why my Power Cap set the address and operated the loco? But I could not program, with the LP?
Maybe it is a power thing, the Cab using more power in the program mode, the LP puts out less?
Would there be a way to measure the difference?
AND yes share the information with all interested.
And yes I do prefer to work with the Tsunami’s over the ESU. Mostly be cause of the time it takes to program them.

Downloading a (large megabyte-size) sound file project to ESU decoder does not use (relatively slow and limited) DCC protocol. As I understand, it uses some sort of proprietary high-speed data transfer "over the rails".  So it can be affected by stray capacitance, resistance, or inductance between the decoder and programmer which will not affect the standard DCC packets.

[RBrodzinsky]

Someone on MRH was having the same issue with an installed Select and v5.0.10 of the programmer software.  When I suggested using 4.7.2, they had no troubles loading software into decoder.  Clearly, the newer versions of the software are more susceptible to issues in the connections.

[peteski]

Someone on MRH was having the same issue with an installed Select and v5.0.10 of the programmer software.  When I suggested using 4.7.2, they had no troubles loading software into decoder.  Clearly, the newer versions of the software are more susceptible to issues in the connections.

Isn't the new version of LokProgrammer uploading the sound  files to the decoder at much faster speed?  I seem to recall reading on the LokSound forum that with the larger V5 sound files, it takes over an hour to download using the old version of programmer, while the new one can do it in 20 minutes?  Or was the speed dependent on the LokProgrammer hardware itself?