Author Topic: Need help with NYC caboose classification  (Read 521 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Lemosteam

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4049
  • Gender: Male
  • PRR, The Standard Railroad of my World
  • Respect: +1285
    • Designer at Keystone Details
Need help with NYC caboose classification
« on: January 10, 2020, 08:40:36 AM »
0
Need some NYC transition era fan help.  I can only assume that like all other RR, the NYC gave class ID's to every car and truck they used.

The below NYC caboose is classed as ???

The trucks on said caboose below are class?

I have a customer who commissioned the truck design in HO and I wish to label them properly. Also I am looking to find out if this class of caboose has ever been produced in N Scale.

Thanks in advance!



wcfn100

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 7848
  • Respect: +671
    • Chicago Great Western Modeler
Re: Need help with NYC caboose classification
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2020, 09:02:14 AM »
0
Is the AMB laser kit the same class?



Jason


jargonlet

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 112
  • Respect: +36
Re: Need help with NYC caboose classification
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2020, 09:04:56 AM »
0
Robert ray also did a kit for the 19000 caboose. I recently built one and used the atlas trucks but I don’t think they are the proper truck. NYC used lot numbers in purchasing that I think they also used in classification of equipment. That may be a good place to start.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 09:46:39 AM by jargonlet »

jargonlet

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 112
  • Respect: +36
Re: Need help with NYC caboose classification
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2020, 09:08:18 AM »
0
This link was an awesome resource when I was building my Robert ray kit.  https://nycshs.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/pages-from-1975q1.pdf
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 09:47:22 AM by jargonlet »

garethashenden

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1233
  • Respect: +407
Re: Need help with NYC caboose classification
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2020, 09:49:41 AM »
0
Those are T-section trucks.

thomasjmdavis

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2042
  • Respect: +294
Re: Need help with NYC caboose classification
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2020, 10:02:03 AM »
0
John,
This probably doesn't tell you much you don't already know, but....
Canada Southern website caboose roster shows it as one of 1000 "standard caboose" built or rebuilt by MDT or others between 1902 and 1923.    It also notes that there were numerous rebuilds- so variations appeared over time.  The AMB kits appears to be the common starting point, and they list the AMB kit as one of the accurate models for the class.
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-CABOOSE.htm
Tom D.

"The difference between the difficult and the impossible is that doing the impossible is usually more fun." (my college design professor Russell Whaley)

bbussey

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 7172
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +1219
    • www.bbussey.net
Re: Need help with NYC caboose classification
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2020, 01:59:10 PM »
0
Those are T-section trucks.

Yes. Which both Bachmann and Bowser have available in N scale, so it stands to reason that at least one of them has them available in HO.
Bryan Busséy
NHRHTA #2246
NSE #1117
www.bbussey.net


Lemosteam

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4049
  • Gender: Male
  • PRR, The Standard Railroad of my World
  • Respect: +1285
    • Designer at Keystone Details
Re: Need help with NYC caboose classification
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2020, 08:31:44 PM »
0
Yes. Which sxboth Bachmann and Bowser have available in N scale, so it stands to reason that at least one of them has them available in HO.

Bryan, on which models?

 you are referring to the truck on the prototype, and not Jason's model?

The NYC fan that requested these indicated that they are only available on a brass caboose model, which he mailed to me.

Missaberoad

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2563
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +503
Re: Need help with NYC caboose classification
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2020, 08:37:56 PM »
0
Yes. Which both Bachmann and Bowser have available in N scale, so it stands to reason that at least one of them has them available in HO.

@bbussey Wondering can you share a link or part number for N scale T section trucks? Not sure I've ever seen such an animal, I can't find them in Mark's or Daniel's truck guides and I'm very interested...

Edit: Daniel's article does include this passage that raises more questions.

Quote
There are several trucks not yet available in N scale. Early Bettendorf trucks, commonly known as Bettendorf T for the shape of their cross section have not been produced.

Source: https://www.model160.com/n-scale-news-blog/freight-car-trucks-in-n-a-pictorial-comparison/


As far as HO goes, Kadee 581 is close.

https://www.kadee.com/ho-scale-trucks-and-wheels-c-272_230_232/581-ho-scale-bettendorf-tsection-self-centering-caboose-trucks-with-33-ribbed-back-wheels-hgc-p-411.htm
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 08:47:18 PM by Missaberoad »
Ryan in Alberta

Lemosteam

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4049
  • Gender: Male
  • PRR, The Standard Railroad of my World
  • Respect: +1285
    • Designer at Keystone Details
Re: Need help with NYC caboose classification
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2020, 10:03:11 PM »
0
Ryan, yes the client sent me a set of the Kadee to measure in addition to the brass model, but the distinctive curved bottom under the springs is a dead giveaway that the Bettendorfs are the wrong trucks for the image.

Thank you for the links and Charlie VLK confirms they have not been made n in N Scale.

bbussey

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 7172
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +1219
    • www.bbussey.net
Re: Need help with NYC caboose classification
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2020, 02:00:22 AM »
0
Bryan, on which models?

 you are referring to the truck on the prototype, and not Jason's model?

The NYC fan that requested these indicated that they are only available on a brass caboose model, which he mailed to me.

In N scale — on all the higher-end Bachmann freight models other than the Northeastern Caboose.  On Bowser, I'm not certain, but they sell separately as item #39990.

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]
Bryan Busséy
NHRHTA #2246
NSE #1117
www.bbussey.net


bbussey

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 7172
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +1219
    • www.bbussey.net
Re: Need help with NYC caboose classification
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2020, 02:03:05 AM »
0
@bbussey Wondering can you share a link or part number for N scale T section trucks? Not sure I've ever seen such an animal, I can't find them in Mark's or Daniel's truck guides and I'm very interested...

Edit: Daniel's article does include this passage that raises more questions.

This is the Bowser truck.  The Bachmann truck frame is identical, which leads me to believe that they copied the Bowser truck.  The Bowser wheels are far better.

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

As I look closer at the photo, there is a difference in the springs even though both are T-Section caboose trucks.  But it still can be used to design an HO leaf-spring version that matches the NYC prototype.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 02:06:39 AM by bbussey »
Bryan Busséy
NHRHTA #2246
NSE #1117
www.bbussey.net


peteski

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 21842
  • Gender: Male
  • Honorary Resident Curmudgeon
  • Respect: +2526
    • Coming (not so) soon...
Re: Need help with NYC caboose classification
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2020, 02:11:12 AM »
0

As I look closer at the photo, there is a difference in the springs even though both are T-Section caboose trucks.  But it still can be used to design an HO leaf-spring version that matches the NYC prototype.

The Bowser sideframes are flat under the spring, where the ones Jon is designing will be curved.  This detail difference will likely be almost imperceivable in N scale though.
--- Peteski de Snarkski

-"Look at me, I'm satirical!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm anal retentive!!!"
-"Look at me, I have the most posts evahhhh!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm snarky!!!!"
-"Look at me, I have OCD!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm a curmudgeon!!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm not negative, just blunt and honest!!!"

Lemosteam

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4049
  • Gender: Male
  • PRR, The Standard Railroad of my World
  • Respect: +1285
    • Designer at Keystone Details
Re: Need help with NYC caboose classification
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2020, 07:13:18 AM »
+1
The Bowser sideframes are flat under the spring, where the ones Jon is designing will be curved.  This detail difference will likely be almost imperceivable in N scale though.

Thanks Bryan, but your Bowser truck shows a coil spring and this is clearly a leaf only. When you compare the Kadee bettendorf to the brass truck they are nearly dead on but for the curved sideframe at the bottom:



Regardless wouldn't one want the actual truck?

Work in progress (wheelbase is correct for image perspective)...

[/url]
« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 07:20:46 AM by Lemosteam »

Missaberoad

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2563
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +503
Re: Need help with NYC caboose classification
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2020, 10:26:15 AM »
0
This is the Bowser truck.  The Bachmann truck frame is identical, which leads me to believe that they copied the Bowser truck.  The Bowser wheels are far better.

As I look closer at the photo, there is a difference in the springs even though both are T-Section caboose trucks.  But it still can be used to design an HO leaf-spring version that matches the NYC prototype.

@bbussey

Ah I see, that is a U section truck... On a T section truck the frame is recessed except for flat bar along the top and bottom, similar to an I beam...

The Bowser truck you posted is a Barrett-Whitehead 2A-F5 and while it has a similar overall shape, the T section vs U section is referring to the profile of the casting.

This image distinctly shows the U section casting of a 2a-f5 truck.

https://digital.hagley.org/islandora/object/islandora%3A2364836/datastream/OBJ/view

To contrast, this photo shows the I beam construction of a T section truck (this is a model of a 40 ton freight truck not a caboose truck, but it illustrates my point)

https://www.protocraft.com/images/713.jpg

Not trying to be a smart a$$, just got excited when you mentioned such a truck was avaliable... It's much needed in N scale both freight and caboose versions...
Ryan in Alberta