Author Topic: E S U Decoders  (Read 1487 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

carlso

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1034
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +391
E S U Decoders
« on: January 04, 2020, 11:16:07 AM »
0

Have ESU decoders always been "Made In China"?

Carl Sowell
El Paso, Texas

Southern New Mexico N Scalers, Las Cruces, New Mexico

nightmare0331

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 218
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +182
Re: E S U Decoders
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2020, 01:56:13 PM »
0
Some of their production is in Germany, some in the Czech Republic and some is in China.

Depends on what particular product.

Enjoy!

Kelley.
www.dufordmodelworks.com

carlso

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1034
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +391
Re: E S U Decoders
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2020, 04:30:56 PM »
0
Thank you Kelley. I was just surprised when I saw the China note on the 73199 package. I guess I am to old to understand our global business world. I am old enough to remember when nearly everything was "Made In Japan" and can remember some rather nasty comments by my elders and other folks.

Carl
Carl Sowell
El Paso, Texas

Southern New Mexico N Scalers, Las Cruces, New Mexico

woodone

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 726
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +23
Re: E S U Decoders
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2020, 08:13:53 AM »
0
That is why I use Soundtraxx decoders when ever possible.
The decoders are made in the USA!

peteski

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 28217
  • Gender: Male
  • Honorary Resident Curmudgeon
  • Respect: +3193
    • Coming (not so) soon...
Re: E S U Decoders
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2020, 12:37:48 PM »
0
That is why I use Soundtraxx decoders when ever possible.
The decoders are made in the USA!

Made in China thing doesn't scare me if the design is done by people at ESU headquarters.   Country of manufacture will not sway my decision about what decoder to buy - my decision is based on the features and reputation.

Chinese are quite skilled in assembling electronic circuit boards.  That is how those highly-coveted (and very expensive) Apple products are made: designed in USA, produced in China.  I wouldn't be surprised that other U.S. DCC manufacturers also farm out production to China.
. . . 42 . . .

MK

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3527
  • Respect: +508
Re: E S U Decoders
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2020, 01:14:42 PM »
0
Just a point of clarification.  Foxconn, which produces the iPhone, is in Taiwan.  Most of the PC motherboards and accessory cards are made their too.  The "Made in China" moniker is usually referred to mainland China.  The workmanship between the two, in general (there are exceptions), is vastly different for electronics.

Usually you'll see a Made In Taiwan vs. Made In China.

peteski

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 28217
  • Gender: Male
  • Honorary Resident Curmudgeon
  • Respect: +3193
    • Coming (not so) soon...
Re: E S U Decoders
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2020, 01:38:19 PM »
0
Still, the small decoder boards are not hand assembled by some Chinese ladies in a long assembly line. They are all assembled and soldered on automatic (robotic) assembly/soldering equipment, which is programmed to do the task and does it with high precision. Then one can argue about the quality of the components. I think regardless where the decoders are assembled, most of their components are produced in China anyway.

I think that if ESU suspected that their China-made decoders were inferior, or more problem-prone than the ones made in Czech Republic, ESU would likely take the manufacturing elsewhere.

But if we were to boycott Chinese-made products for political reasons, that is a whole new ball game.
. . . 42 . . .

nickelplate759

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2618
  • Respect: +587
Re: E S U Decoders
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2020, 02:04:11 PM »
0
Foxcon is indeed based in Taiwan, but has manufacturing sites on the mainland as well, including the iphone.
George
NKPH&TS #3628

I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.

jagged ben

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2779
  • Respect: +306
Re: E S U Decoders
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2020, 02:19:01 PM »
0
Just a point of clarification.  Foxconn, which produces the iPhone, is in Taiwan.  Most of the PC motherboards and accessory cards are made their too.  The "Made in China" moniker is usually referred to mainland China.  The workmanship between the two, in general (there are exceptions), is vastly different for electronics.

Usually you'll see a Made In Taiwan vs. Made In China.

I have no idea what the relevance of Foxconn is to this discussion (I have no knowledge of Foxconn producing any model railroad products), but they have 12 factories in mainland China according to Wikipedia, as well as in several other countries on four continents.    Iphones, to take an example, are assembled mostly in mainland China from components made around the world.  Probably many MRR decoders, no matter where assembled, similarly include components (resistors, diodes, caps, processors) manufactured in multiple countries.

Your last sentence is correct, but I can't recall ever seeing any N scale products made in Taiwan. 

woodone

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 726
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +23
Re: E S U Decoders
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2020, 03:16:59 PM »
0
I still prefer to buy USA.
What I have a hard time understanding is this? Why if a machine makes the decoder, does it cost less to make the decoder out of State?
Same production, same parts and in most cases the product cost the end user the same $$.

EspeeGoldenState

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 513
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +77
    • Modern Southern Pacific
Re: E S U Decoders
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2020, 04:43:51 PM »
0
I still prefer to buy USA.
What I have a hard time understanding is this? Why if a machine makes the decoder, does it cost less to make the decoder out of State?
Same production, same parts and in most cases the product cost the end user the same $$.

Hardly the same parts, if Tsunami2's were identical to LokSound decoders they would not be equivalently the same price. That's why there is one sound file on a Tsunami, they are built for one file only, where a LokSound is built differently to be a lot more versatile. LokSound has a lot more CV variables and fine tuning than a Tsunami, and is another price point difference.

So changing the subject, do you only buy from the Big 3 in automobiles? Those might be assembled here, but those parts aren't sourced from the US alone. Its the same principle as above as jagged ben said, parts are sourced from around the world regardless of what is being manufactured.

Chris

Chris
Attempting to model a modern Southern Pacific based in 2015...

peteski

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 28217
  • Gender: Male
  • Honorary Resident Curmudgeon
  • Respect: +3193
    • Coming (not so) soon...
Re: E S U Decoders
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2020, 05:07:14 PM »
0
IMO, this made-in-China discussion is pointless.  Just because something is  made in China, that doesn't automatically imply "dollar store quality".  As it has been mentioned, there are quality items made in China too. Heck, most of the American N scale models are made in China, so why would someone dis a decoder for being made in China instead of Germany?

If anything, I see the difference in assembly and design quality of previously German made model trains, after their production was moved to China. But I don't see the same thing applying to electronic circuit manufacturing.
. . . 42 . . .

reinhardtjh

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2689
  • Respect: +265
Re: E S U Decoders
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2020, 05:49:11 PM »
0
I still prefer to buy USA.
What I have a hard time understanding is this? Why if a machine makes the decoder, does it cost less to make the decoder out of State?
Same production, same parts and in most cases the product cost the end user the same $$.

Long answer:  Because the guy running the machine in China might make $20 (equivalent) per day whereas the guy running the machine in the U.S.A. makes $20 per hour.  Not to mention the factory costs themselves.  Zoning, OSHA, taxes all are higher in the USA than China.  It all adds up.

These numbers are all made up, I don't know the real ratio, but it's still the reason for the difference. 

Short answer:  The cost of running the machine is just a small part of the cost of the product.


John H. Reinhardt
PRRT&HS #8909
C&O HS #11530
N-Trak #7566

woodone

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 726
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +23
Re: E S U Decoders
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2020, 07:24:16 PM »
0
Hardly the same parts, if Tsunami2's were identical to LokSound decoders they would not be equivalently the same price. That's why there is one sound file on a Tsunami, they are built for one file only, where a LokSound is built differently to be a lot more versatile. LokSound has a lot more CV variables and fine tuning than a Tsunami, and is another price point difference.

So changing the subject, do you only buy from the Big 3 in automobiles? Those might be assembled here, but those parts aren't sourced from the US alone. Its the same principle as above as jagged ben said, parts are sourced from around the world regardless of what is being manufactured.
Chris
Chris, has for automobiles- I will not own a import car! Has for the parts used in decoder they share many like pices.Tsunami’ s did at one time only have 1 sound file, now the Tsunami 2  has more than one. There was a reason for this, and it was the owner of Soundtraxx that made that call. He had his own reason. The sound processor had lots of room for more than one file. Has for which is better? I guess that is the buyers choice. Don’t forget, Soundtraxx has a sound equalizer plus the audio amp is 2 watts, ESU s amp is only 1 watt, so the volume with a Tsunami will be greater if the speaker is the same quality. But WTH do I know.
Chris

peteski

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 28217
  • Gender: Male
  • Honorary Resident Curmudgeon
  • Respect: +3193
    • Coming (not so) soon...
Re: E S U Decoders
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2020, 07:42:52 PM »
0
Chris, has for automobiles- I will not own a import car! Has for the parts used in decoder they share many like pices.Tsunami’ s did at one time only have 1 sound file, now the Tsunami 2  has more than one. There was a reason for this, and it was the owner of Soundtraxx that made that call. He had his own reason. The sound processor had lots of room for more than one file. Has for which is better? I guess that is the buyers choice. Don’t forget, Soundtraxx has a sound equalizer plus the audio amp is 2 watts, ESU s amp is only 1 watt, so the volume with a Tsunami will be greater if the speaker is the same quality. But WTH do I know.

Since we are talking cars, many of those "foreign" cars are actually made in the good ol' USA, while some American (as in USA) cars are produced in Mexico. Kind of ironic if you ask me.

Tsunamis now have 2 sound files?  Um, decoders like ESU, ZIMO and QSI (which is American made), have dozens of sound files.
While the equalizer is a nice feature, most (if not all) small "sugar cube" or even conventional speakers which will fit in N scale locos are rated for less than 1W of power. They are too small to handle more.  Well, if you can install lets say 4 speakers in your N scale model, and the impedance is chosen in a way which will allow the amp to put out full 2W of power, then sure, have a loud blast.  BTW, while I have not looked at the ESU manual, I seem to recall that their amp is rated for 2 or 4W of power.

I also suspect that if you really had 2W of power cranking through your speakers (in appropriate enclosures), you would likely find the sound way too loud. At least that is how I hear it.

. . . 42 . . .