Vehicles shiny or flat?

[Bill H]

Seasons Greetings:
A recent post about a shiny valve cover on a steam engine got me to thinking about how vehicles look on a layout. We go to great lengths to use flat finishes on most all rolling stock, buildings, and landscaping excepting rivers and other bodies of water. Some well known and respected modeller once remarked that we need to paint in the atmosphere and thus everything should appear to be flat. I just sat a brand new, rather CMW shiny metal vehicle on one of my modules among all manner of dull coated rolling stock and flat painted structures, and frankly, it sort of struck me as too shiny or at least out of place.  So if I weather it, even just moderately, excepting the windshield and windows, it would be dull, including the chrome. And if it was representing a very new car, in the last year that I am modeling, it probably would not be weathered, but should it be dull coated?

Thoughts?

Kind regards,
Bill

[wazzou]

Speaking personally, IMO, I dullcote all of them.

[glakedylan]

... it probably would not be weathered, but should it be dull coated?

Thoughts?

Kind regards,
Bill

greetings Bill and holiday wishes.


FWIW, back in my younger years when i was a die hard car guy, i spent hours / week waxing and shining up my cars.
IIRC the shine / finish was just as much a thing as what engine, tranny, and tires you had on it.
of course, there were more run-of-the-mill people with family cars that would wash them regularly. but, it seems to me
if the era is the 60's-80's a shined up car was the norm. i recall all the marketing on TV especially during football
broadcasts having tons of turtle wax, rain dance, mother's, etc. commercials.


sincerely
Gary

[Chris333]

I think it is about scale. If you are modeling a car that should be shiny I'd tone it down just a little. Maybe not all the way dull though. But common everyday cars, yeah Dullcote.

[Missaberoad]

As Chris said scale and distance are definite factors.

Here's a photo of some very well cared for cars, the ones next to the photographer show a lot of "gloss" but see how the cars across the parking lot are noticeably duller (still much larger and closer then they would be in N scale) they reflect light, but don't show much gloss...

https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/SHORPY-IMGX002.jpg

for another example here's some more utilitarian vehicles, once again very little gloss.

https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/SHORPY-1a33845u.jpg

Personally I think mixture of matte and low sheen satin finishes looks best.

[thomasjmdavis]

To me, it is an issue of scale, as others have said.  The way I think about it is that 480 feet in real life scales down to just over 3 feet in N scale.  That is, when we look at something on the layout 3' away, what we see looks like (or we work to make it look like) the same object in real life when it is 480 feet away.  The problem is that at 3 feet, the shiny model is just as shiny as a full sized one at 3 feet. just smaller. And we want it to look like a glossy object that is 480 feet away.  So, the best advice might be to take some photos of cars at the distance you are modeling in a given scene, and reduce the amount of gloss accordingly.

In terms of what I have come up with myself, I would opt for, doing a rather glossy finish on a new car if it is in a focal scene (hot rod at the Dairy Queen, new car lot, car wash) near the edge of the layout or a photo location, and a more satin or eggshell on newer cars farther in the distance.  And go with matte/flat finishes in background areas.  Do also keep in mind that there are (and even more commonly when I was a kid) folks who have washed and waxed their 20 year old car every week and have it painted once ever several years "whether it needs it or not"- so some older cars will be as shiny as new.

[Bill H]

Tom:
While I spent more time with Blue Coral than I want to admit in the fifties and my car never went more than a few days without a proper wash and usually a wax, excepting snow storms, I still have the concept in the back of my mind, that we are in our scale still dealing with looking at them at quite a distance, or perhaps, dealing with painting in the atmosphere...

Kind regards,
Bill

[thomasjmdavis]

Hi Bill,

I may not have explained my point of view very well.  I think we are in agreement on the fact that distance makes a difference, and that a glossy model vehicle at 500 scale feet will be "too shiny" compared to a high gloss real vehicle at 500 real feet. 

Your point about "atmosphere" is well taken.  Maybe someday in the future, we will have DCC controllable "smog" for our industrial scenes and urban areas.  But for the moment, we have to do the best we can with an airbrush to create the effects on our scenery
.

[cfritschle]

Bill,

I would try applying a little "dirt" to the vehicle to see if that is sufficient before spraying on a dull finish.  The Tips 'N Tricks pages (http://nscalevehicles.org/tips_n_tricks.php) on the N Scale Vehicle Association's web site show the results of just adding powdered Tempera paint for quick, easy and not completely permanent weathering of vehicle models.  This page is specific for CMW vehicles.  http://nscalevehicles.org/tips_n_tricks/cmw_die-cast.php 

You will likely need to open the pdf version to enlarge the photos enough to see the effect.  The nice thing about using the powdered Tempera is that while it does adhere to the surface without an over spray of paint, it can be washed for the most part.  All paint is porous, so you can never fully restore back the the factory finish, but you can "undo" most of the weathering effect with a little tap water if you want to.   

[Bill H]

Tom, Carter;
Thanks for the input and perceptions. Will take a look at your recommended links.

Kind regards,
Bill

[Mike the Modeler]

The earlier comments about scale sheen and viewing distance are good ones. I too struggled with the CMW vehicles being shiny to distraction. When I built some GHQ kits I wanted to have a sheen on the vehicles that appeared more to scale. I ended up using some spray on water based floor wax that I found in our cleaning closet. Sprayed some in a cup and then brushed it on to the models. The stuff went on well and self leveled. The attached photos shows a stock CMW car near field, a GHQ vehicle with the floor wax finish in the middle, and a dull and weathered car in the back.

[mmagliaro]

I think the CMW car, which has the most gloss, looks the most "right" to me.

Do a web search for     1950s parking lot
and look at some of the color photos.

Here's an example:
https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/0408/08/1950s-northland-southfield-color-8x10-print_1_4b7273ebb3bd02fbc00fbe2f8c42ade8.jpg

I think the cars look pretty shiny.

[Chris333]

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1950s-northland-southfield-color-8x10-print

[ncbqguy]

For what it is worth, I remember that a LHS owner in Berwyn, Illinois  commented that during the forties before the Burlington dieselized, which was across the street from the store, the display windows would come clean of the residue from the steam engine smoke every time it rained.   After EMD took over, the glass had to be washed with glass cleaner to get off the diesel fume residue.   You might notice the same effect on cars if you’re near the approach to an airport nowadays.
It always struck me how cars were so clean and shiny in vintage photos!
Charlie Vlk

[Bill H]

Max, Chris:
Max thanks for the photo, Chris for updating the link. Certainly something to think about.

Kind regards,
Bill