Author Topic: Revised Scale Trains Couplers  (Read 3268 times)

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jereising

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Revised Scale Trains Couplers
« on: December 10, 2019, 04:34:20 PM »
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Caught the video below off of FaceBook -

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Looks like a major complaint has been addressed.  Someone listens!

Soon as these are available I will be replacing all the original ST couplers.
Jim Reising
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spookshow

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Re: Revised Scale Trains Couplers
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2019, 04:51:55 PM »
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I noticed the improvement in the couplers right away on the Dash-9's. I was like, "wow, these actually work", lol.

-Mark

peteski

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Re: Revised Scale Trains Couplers
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2019, 05:43:41 PM »
+1
Very informative video - thanks!  Yes, Scale Trains couplers seem to have been dramatically improved.  They even appear a bit smaller than the last iteration.  Kudos to Scale Trains.

But of course I have to offer my brutally honest opinion. Still too large, and I'm  not a fan of the exposed knuckle spring.  Yes I know that H0 Kadee couplers always had a knuckle spring exposed, but I've been spoiled by the spring-less couplers in N scale.

The other thing that puzzles me is why it took them 3 tries to get their coupler at least operational.  As I understand the guys who started Scale trains are well seasoned model train designers.  Didn't they test their original couplers for smooth operation and compatibility with other brand couplers?  And why make it so large where the N scales pine for smaller couplers?

Still, I'm glad that they made the necessary changes to make their coupler work better.
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jagged ben

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Re: Revised Scale Trains Couplers
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2019, 11:54:23 PM »
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All right Pete, let's see you design an N-scale coupler that works perfectly in one try.   :trollface:

I mostly agree with your other comments.  It's great that it works.  It's not at all impressive with respect to any aspect of appearance.

Also I didn't see any testing with an Accumate.

peteski

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Re: Revised Scale Trains Couplers
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2019, 12:44:19 AM »
+2
All right Pete, let's see you design an N-scale coupler that works perfectly in one try.   :trollface:


I know that you are just busting my cookies, but we are not talking about an individual (me) haphazardly designing a coupler. We are talking about a "real" model train manufacturer that is coming out with a brand new coupler design.  Wouldn't they have done some extensive (or even basic) testing of the coupler's prototype for compatibility and smooth operation before committing it to final production?  If they really did produce it without any prototype testing then the egg is on their face.
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MetroRedLine

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Re: Revised Scale Trains Couplers
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2019, 02:09:41 AM »
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Glad to hear they improved it (I believe this is the 3rd or 4th-update of the ST coupler), but disappointed that they aren't the more prototypical-looking brown anymore.
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w neal

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Re: Revised Scale Trains Couplers
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2019, 07:14:16 AM »
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Retro fitting options then?
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diezmon

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Re: Revised Scale Trains Couplers
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2019, 10:41:57 AM »
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Now I want cookies

daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: Revised Scale Trains Couplers
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2019, 04:09:10 PM »
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They are still enormous. Anyone know if you can swap out the couplers with Accumates? I know MTL won't work but Accumates do not use the centering spring that has been the problem in the past.
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peteski

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Re: Revised Scale Trains Couplers
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2019, 04:27:21 PM »
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They are still enormous. Anyone know if you can swap out the couplers with Accumates? I know MTL won't work but Accumates do not use the centering spring that has been the problem in the past.

Hmm... the Big Blow turbines have coupler boxes which accept (drop-in) MTL couplers (they fit in the Scale Trains coupler boxes without any modifications).  I would imagine other Scale Trains locos would be similarly designed.  That is one of the things I applauded Scale Trains for doing (super easy MTL conversion).  Of course if you prefer Accumates, then I'm not sure how that would work.
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nkalanaga

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Re: Revised Scale Trains Couplers
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2019, 07:53:35 PM »
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If the box accepts MT 1015s, then Accumates will work.  The problem going the other way is the centering nubs on the MT shanks.  If the box doesn't have the slots for them, the 1015 won't work right.
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peteski

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Re: Revised Scale Trains Couplers
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2019, 08:48:46 PM »
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If the box accepts MT 1015s, then Accumates will work.  The problem going the other way is the centering nubs on the MT shanks.  If the box doesn't have the slots for them, the 1015 won't work right.

That was the clever thing Scale Trains did on the Big Blows - they included those MTL slots.
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jagged ben

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Re: Revised Scale Trains Couplers
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2019, 12:31:08 AM »
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The C39-8 is the same as the turbine, the boxes accept MTL.  I posted about that in another thread, probably the C39-8 thread.

...

Pete, yeah I'm just busting your cookies, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.  Hmm, cookies.

In all seriousness, how do you know Scale Trains' first coupler on the turbines wasn't even their first try, but just the best they could do before reaching their deadline to release that model and start making money?  And what reason do you have to believe that model train designers, however well seasoned, would exceed the performance of all previous model train designers?  To wit, name an N-scale coupler that didn't/doesn't need improvement over its first iteration.  MTL revised theirs with the RDA. Accumates are still terrible when truck mounted but at least Atlas is body-mounting many of them now.  McHenrys seemed to have improved in quality control lately although I'm not sure what they did to fix them and I generally still don't consider them reliable.  Kato has nine versions (maybe I exaggerate slightly) none of which are designed to mate with any non-Kato.

I mean, to be clear, I am amazed and impressed that the new Scale Trains coupler on the Dash-9s mates well with KATO couplers in the video.  As you know, Kato has made zero effort to make their couplers compatible with anyone else's, which is to say they've made slightly less effort than everyone else.

So yeah, kudos to Scale Trains.  It's still not the scale size coupler I'd want to see, but they actually are improving their coupler compatibility beyond what anyone has done before, and maybe that just takes a few tries.

peteski

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Re: Revised Scale Trains Couplers
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2019, 01:16:22 AM »
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The C39-8 is the same as the turbine, the boxes accept MTL.  I posted about that in another thread, probably the C39-8 thread.
Thanks. Good to know that they continued to provide easy means for MTL conversion.
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Pete, yeah I'm just busting your cookies, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.  Hmm, cookies.
Wouldn't expect anything less from you.   Just make sure not to pick up any of those nasty tracking cookies.  :)
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In all seriousness, how do you know Scale Trains' first coupler on the turbines wasn't even their first try, but just the best they could do before reaching their deadline to release that model and start making money? And what reason do you have to believe that model train designers, however well seasoned, would exceed the performance of all previous model train designers?
I don't have any insider info, so I don't know, but I do know that if I was touting my new company as one which will make very accurate scale models, and I set out to design my own brand new coupler, I would strive to make it as good or better than other existing knuckle couplers. To me that would encompass making it as small as possible (close to scale) while retaining compatibility, and also visually as close to the AAR Type E coupler as possible, while still providing smooth coupling and reliable operation.
If I could not achieve that goal (for whatever reason), I would either utilize another company's proven couplers, or get one of the Chinese manufacturers to supply me with a MTL clone. Both of these options have been successfully used by other model manufacturers for years. That way the model could be released without delays (or with an inferior coupler). But if I still had the man-hours and other resources still available, I would in the background still continue working on that new awesome coupler which would be worthy of the Scale Trains name. Then, once it was developed and thoroughly tested, I would start utilizing it in future releases, and even maybe offer it for sale.

I realize that I'm just an average modeler  without extensive understanding of the model railroad business, but to me what I mentioned seems logical and achievable.  But that's just me.
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To wit, name an N-scale coupler that didn't/doesn't need improvement over its first iteration.  MTL revised theirs with the RDA.

By the time the RDA modification was developed and implemented, Kadee/MTL N scale couplers have been very successful and reliable for decades. Patented too.  RDA mod was the proverbial icing on the cake.  It made a good coupler (operationally) even better.

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Accumates are still terrible when truck mounted but at least Atlas is body-mounting many of them now.  McHenrys seemed to have improved in quality control lately although I'm not sure what they did to fix them and I generally still don't consider them reliable.
Can't disagree with your statements here, even though some members here prefer Accumates to MTL. McHenry is McHenry.  :facepalm: And the Scale Trains coupler seems to be its very close cousin.
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Kato has nine versions (maybe I exaggerate slightly) none of which are designed to mate with any non-Kato. As you know, Kato has made zero effort to make their couplers compatible with anyone else's, which is to say they've made slightly less effort than everyone else.

We're in agreement again.  But Kato is Kato, unfortunately, and they march to their own drum beat, listening to no one.
Kato couplers are unreliable even in Kato to Kato coupling.  I have demonstrated this to Jumpei from Kato few years ago at the Springfield show. He took photos and videos of my demonstration and told me that he will send them to their engineering team, but he either did not do that, or it fell on blind eyes.

In plan view Kato couplers are probably the smallest of operational (and I use that word loosely) N scale knuckle couplers, and look probably closest to AAR Type E couplers, but operationally they stink!
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I mean, to be clear, I am amazed and impressed that the new Scale Trains coupler on the Dash-9s mates well with KATO couplers in the video. 

So yeah, kudos to Scale Trains.  It's still not the scale size coupler I'd want to see, but they actually are improving their coupler compatibility beyond what anyone has done before, and maybe that just takes a few tries.

Yes, kudos to ST for making their coupler work better.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 01:18:20 AM by peteski »
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basementcalling

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Re: Revised Scale Trains Couplers
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2019, 03:16:51 PM »
+1
I'll side with Peteski here.  If you're gonna make the most detailed plastic N scale engine models ever offered, don't put a boxing glove on the front and rear and call it museum quality.
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