Retro 1970s & 1980s N locomotives

[OldEastRR]

This 1980s set of Bachmann NS SD40s with blinking roof lights plus C&O box car and N&W caboose (both probably from 1970s and no brand name on bottom) came with a lot of estate items that included the ConCor Rivarossi locomotives posted at the beginning of this post.  Does anyone know if the odd red caboose with the big lantern on the roof was MiniTrix or Arnold?

Arnold
http://davidksmith.com/birth-of-n/arnold-us-68-55.htm

[nickelplate759]

Arnold
http://davidksmith.com/birth-of-n/arnold-us-68-55.htm

I disagree.  I'm pretty sure that the caboose in the picture is the Roco model sold first by Trix, later by Walthers.  That said, I'm also pretty sure they were both modeled on the same prototype.   Easy way to tell - the Roco model has a plastic floor.

[Doug G.]

1979? Heck, I was already a seasoned, 17-year OOO/N scale veteran by then.



Doug

[Doug G.]

I disagree.  I'm pretty sure that the caboose in the picture is the Roco model sold first by Trix, later by Walthers.  That said, I'm also pretty sure they were both modeled on the same prototype.   Easy way to tell - the Roco model has a plastic floor.

I was going to say, I could tell better by looking at the bottom.

Doug

[spookshow]

When in doubt, check the encyclopedia 

Arnold -



Roco (by way of MRC, Con-Cor, Minitrix and Model Power) -



-Mark

[Doug G.]

Quit showing off.



Doug

[Nato]

        As Mark Pointed out that caboose was a Roco / Trix later sold by Con Cor. It is a model of correct me if I'am wrong Robert 3985 a Union Pacific CA. The lantern on the top marks it as turn of the century early 1900's era. These were later removed. The one that is on my current layout has this removed, the grabs painted and the correct Q Wood beam trucks under it. It does not look too bad. I also have an unmodified SP painted one from Con Cor, and they also did a GN Red one. The Arnold later Revell Rapido car was copied after the Revell HO UP CA caboose, right down to the open window, but it was a low rider car not correct height like the HO car. The Lone Star Metal caboose offered in many roads including UP was also a crude model of this car. Nate Goodman (Nato).

[wazzou]

-Mark

Looks like a Rapido Meat Reefer.   

[learmoia]

Looks like a Rapido Meat Reefer.   

Good I'm not the only one who thought that

[robert3985]

        As Mark Pointed out that caboose was a Roco / Trix later sold by Con Cor. It is a model of correct me if I'am wrong Robert 3985 a Union Pacific CA. The lantern on the top marks it as turn of the century early 1900's era. These were later removed. The one that is on my current layout has this removed, the grabs painted and the correct Q Wood beam trucks under it. It does not look too bad. I also have an unmodified SP painted one from Con Cor, and they also did a GN Red one. The Arnold later Revell Rapido car was copied after the Revell HO UP CA caboose, right down to the open window, but it was a low rider car not correct height like the HO car. The Lone Star Metal caboose offered in many roads including UP was also a crude model of this car. Nate Goodman (Nato).

I'm more expert at what the prototype cabooses were rather than who made the models, but...that said, I have two old retro cabooses by Arnold/Rapido that were roughly modeled after a Class N.C.S. U.P. caboose...N.C.S. meaning Non-Common-Standard which were pre-Harriman Era, manufactured at various places from the 1880's until sometime in 1908.

Photo (1) Arnold/Rapido U.P. N.C.S. Caboose marketed by Revell:


Photo (2) Arnold/Rapido N.C.S Caboose marketed by Arnold:


Both of these models differ from the Minitrix/Con-Cor/MRC/Modelpower by not having metal wheels, a smokejack, a square "top light" on the cupola, nor separate running boards.  There may be other differences, but I only have the Arnold/Rapido versions.

I acquired both of these models early on in my quest to have correct U.P. CA-1 cabooses running on my layout, but after some real research, it became very obvious that these are very poor models to begin with and no amount of applying lipstick to these pigs would make them worthy of running on my layout.

Later, after I acquired the excellent book "Cabooses of the Union Pacific Railroad" by Don Strack and James L. Ehernberger, with nothing to do one cold Sunday afternoon, I did some research and found a few photos that looked pretty similar to my two "retro" cabooses.

Photo (3) - U.P. Class N.C.S. Caboose built in 1880, after a few Harriman Era modifications, in 1940:


The prototype Class N.C.S. cabooses all were built with wooden frames, which necessitated the use of truss-rods to keep the frame straight.  Note also the narrow running boards on the roof between the narrow cupola walls and the edges of the roof, which were on some of the N.C.S. cabooses...and not on others.  You can't see the smokejack in this photo, but it probably is the early lower style as on the Minitrix model, along with the "top light"...some of which got removed and some didn't.  Obvious Harriman safety mods were the extended rounded tops of the end platform ladders and the standardized handrails on the platform ends.  Also, more steps on the end platform steps were added so they were lower hanging.  This photo doesn't have any end windows, but other photos show both one and two end-window versions.
 
Although there are many things wrong with either model, the one thing that caused me to not waste my time with them was the grossly oversized sheathing on both models.

Sooo...they're NOT a CA-3 (like is printed on the Revell U.P. version...a CA-3 being U.P.'s first metal/riveted caboose which these models obviously aren't), nor a CA-1, nor a CA...but the earlier Class N.C.S. caboose, before being Harriman-ized...fit to run on U.P. and associated roads' trains before 1909.

Of course, if I were gonna run them on Kato Unitrack or Peco/Atlas C80 sectional track...maybe I wouldn't give a damn...but, I'm never gonna do that...ever. 

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[peteski]

Good I'm not the only one who thought that

Not at all.  If you search through the older post, you can see what my blunt and honest assessment of the board gaps was.  I even had a discussion about the gaps with Rapido's Bill Schneider at the Springfield show few years ago. 

And @wazzou gets an up-vote for his post too. 

[Doug G.]

I believe the cupola on the N.C.S. cabooses originally had angled sides and were later changed to straight sides.

Doug

[robert3985]

I believe the cupola on the N.C.S. cabooses originally had angled sides and were later changed to straight sides.

Doug

There were several types of cupolas on Type N.C.S. cabooses.  (1) A narrow straight-sided cupola with narrow running boards on either side of it (2) A wider, slant-sided cupola with no running boards on the sides of it, and (3) an offset cupola with a full-width running board on one side of it, and angled running boards coming from the ends to meet up with the cupola side-stepping one-sided running board.  This caboose also had a center located stove, so the angled running boards missed the smokejack coming out of the centerline of the caboose's arched roof.  Then, there were the really short N.C.S. cabooses and the really long ones...lots of different types of N.C.S. cabooses since they were made all over U.P.'s territory for different needs.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[wm3798]

I have the Arnold caboose in DRGW from my cousin's old set, along with the matching FP9.

[nkalanaga]

"The Lone Star Metal caboose offered in many roads including UP was also a crude model of this car. "

I still have one of those Lone Star cabooses, with old Atlas trucks and Kadee couplers, but never imagined they HAD a prototype!