BLI T1's

[propmeup1]

I'm back again with the T1 issues.  As of now i have one T1 and one E7 at BLI waiting repair, been there for five weeks now.  So within that time my second T1 is throwing a fit and will not move at all. It has all the sounds and even makes the sounds it should when moving when i use the trottle but she will not move.
    BLI has given me direction to do some CV changes but nothing is working.  They said to send it in as well.   So I decided to take a decoder from one of my BLI 2-8-2s and put it in the T1. She runs perfect with the exception of the duplex chuff. I've tried to change that but to no avail.  Even the chuff timing I haven't been able to change even though I've read over all the CV changes for that.   You can also set a CV for Articulated sound which they weren't but they did have four cylinders so you do get atric sound from them.
     So point is it must be in the decoder giving them fits. The other things is the pick up. Just like the centipedes with all the wheels, the T1s are much alike. You would think with all those wheels that pick up would be great. Not the case.  Since I ran a jumper from booster box to the other the pick up over the two layout sections has improved.
    I have one T1 left that runs pretty good yet but i've probably just jinxed that one too.  Yea i know, three T1s. They look great doubleheading 20 cars and one in the roundhouse.  I been on them about giving us a Q2 but that may never happen.

[propmeup1]

I failed to mention something else about the pick up issues with the T1s.   Once i put a jumper between my booster boxes it did solve most of the stalling problems with the T1s but not all.  Running one with the decoder from the 2-8-2 it has not stalled once. I have two mains that are 116" inch long loops. It takes 45.5 times around to make a real mile of 5280ft. I ran it that many times without a stall.  Once again that tells me it's in the factory installed decoders in the T1s.  What to do when BLI will not admit to the problem. 
I'm frustrated as hell . I've spent a small fortune on their products and a bunch just in shipping them back and forth to FL every couple of months. It would be nice if someone at BLI read this. I will be sending the them an email tonight so they receive it tomorrow.

[greenwizard88]

I would love if BLI would just use ESU or TSU decoders. They could even use a daughter board to take the low-level speaker output and send it to their rolling thunder system if they need to.

[davefoxx]

Wow, how frustrating to have so many problems with multiple units from BLI.  If I were suffering the same fate, I would probably just remove the BLI decoders and replace them with appropriate ESU or Tsunami decoders (if possible).  Just makes those locomotives that much more expensive, though. 

DFF

[ChristianJDavis1]

I would love if BLI would just use ESU or TSU decoders. They could even use a daughter board to take the low-level speaker output and send it to their rolling thunder system if they need to.

BLI has already proven they aren't interested in doing what the customer wants so much as what they want. It's either you buy their locomotives with their board installed, or nothing at all, unfortunately. And apparently it works for them, so good for them. I would be way more tempted by their stuff if I could get it in straight DC so I could install whatever I wanted (if I even wanted anything) without paying extra for the electronics I don't want. I don't see them stopping the use of their own boards, so our only hope is to wait for them to sort out their own problems.

As far as the OP is concerned, as much as it stinks, I think your best option is to replace the BLI decoders. I only see problems with them down the road, and more and more trips to BLI. Save yourself the money now and swap boards, and maybe try and sell the BLI boards to someone who wants them (only if they work, though; if they don't work and you know it, that would be rather dishonest).

[jdcolombo]

Replace the decoder and add a keep alive.  There's enough room in the tender for both.  Upgrade the speaker while you're at it.  I'd normally recommend an ESU LokSound, but there isn't really any good ESU sound file for this engine.  Use a Tsunami 2.  If you don't do this now, you'll probably end up doing it later, AFTER you've spent more $$ for repairs/shipping/etc.  Life is too short. 

When you solve the decoder/electrical problems, these are terrific looking and running engines.

John C.

PS - when I buy a BLI engine, I just add $100 to the price, figuring it will need a decoder swap.  Then I decide if I'm willing to pay that price.  With the Mikes, I did; ditto for the PA-1's.  But those were the only ones.

[C855B]

Just a reminder from discussions long past... the big bucks for sound decoders are not for the electronics, they're for the intellectual property in the sound files. BLI sources their own decoders because their proprietary sound mix costs X to produce, and adds X + [a whole bunch] in the marketplace. They're not about to pay for somebody else's sound work since that's where their profit is.

EDIT: Oops. I typed "encoders" when I meant "decoders". Spell check and grammar check do nothing to help there. C'est la vie!

[peteski]

Just a reminder from discussions long past... the big bucks for sound encoders are not for the electronics, they're for the intellectual property in the sound files. BLI sources their own decoders because their proprietary sound mix costs X to produce, and adds X + [a whole bunch] in the marketplace. They're not about to pay for somebody else's sound work since that's where their profit is.

While you are correct about the intellectual properly, other N scale train manufacturers do just  that:  pay for someone else's decoder and its firmware/sound design. Those manufacturers design the model itself, but have the decoder manufactured by one of the well known quality DCC decoder  manufacturers.  We all know who those companies are.  It also seems that BLI is in the minority of companies which design their own decoder and force it on modelers (Bachmann is I think the only other company that partially fits that bill).

And if you look at the price of the models which come with factory-installed 3rd party sound decoders, they are in line with BLI's price (with their proprietary decoder).   So Mike, I'm not sure what your point  is.

[C855B]

... So Mike, I'm not sure what your point  is.

My point is that BLI's business model is predicated on their profit in the sound decoders. Other model makers using 3rd-party sound decoders are splitting the take with the decoder manufacturer/integrator. It's all how one slices the pie, and is also IMO the big motive behind BLI not offering sound-less models - take away the sound, take away most or all of the profit.

[peteski]

My point is that BLI's business model is predicated on their profit in the sound decoders. Other model makers using 3rd-party sound decoders are splitting the take with the decoder manufacturer/integrator. It's all how one slices the pie, and is also IMO the big motive behind BLI not offering sound-less models - take away the sound, take away most or all of the profit.

I see.  So the bottom line is that modeler gets "stuck" with BLI decoder because BLI want to reap maximum profits.  I'm sure BLI would point out that *THEIR* decoders have features not available in other decoders, but in the end the modelers are still stuck with a decoder they might think it inferior, or one they do not want.

[Chris333]

BLI's whole business model is DCC/sound. But most likely you will need to replace the DCC/sound to get a decent loco.

[peteski]

BLI's whole business model is DCC/sound. But most likely you will need to replace the DCC/sound to get a decent loco.

And all along I thought that BLI was a manufacturer of model train rolling stock, locomotives, and an occasional novelty item like shoes, or scale models of water towers, and that a decoder was just one of the model's features. 

[Jbub]

They want their cake and want to eat it too all the while leaving us with the by product that comes about 12-24 hours later.

[ChristianJDavis1]

And all along I thought that BLI was a manufacturer of model train rolling stock, locomotives, and an occasional novelty item like shoes, or scale models of water towers, and that a decoder was just one of the model's features. 

It's more like the decoder is their main interest, and sometimes they put a decent-looking model around it (and sometimes it even operates!). You've got your winners, which appears to be their mikado's right now, and their clear losers, like the AC6000's, the Centipedes, the stock cars, the T1's...

[ChristianJDavis1]

Just a reminder from discussions long past... the big bucks for sound encoders are not for the electronics, they're for the intellectual property in the sound files. BLI sources their own decoders because their proprietary sound mix costs X to produce, and adds X + [a whole bunch] in the marketplace. They're not about to pay for somebody else's sound work since that's where their profit is.

Honestly, this makes a lot of sense, but you also wonder how much they lose from people who won't buy any of their products because of their decoders. Maybe selling more models with less profit would be better then less models with more profit? I won't even to begin saying I know how a manufacturer should think; I only know it from the customer side of the table. Them having their own sound library seems very true, though, as a lot of their HO equipment at least uses the same sounds for everything (mainly steam). A lot of it probably should sound the same, but it's to the point you know it's a BLI just from hearing it, and that isn't usually a good thing.