Roadbed Track on Foam

[EmdFan]

Hi all,

I know this has been discussed at length on various forums, but I just wanted to see if anyone has any new ideas. I will be moving fairly soon, and have started taking down my HO switching layout (yes I’m a bit of a rubber gauger  ) The move will likely be to smaller quarters so I may finally just commit to N, it was my first love 40 years ago.

Anyway, I am looking at a 27x54” slab of 2” foam and a pile of Atlas True Track. I’d like to do something with this so I can at least have something to run and tinker with. It will be a roundy rounder with a couple or few siding.

I’m one of those people that hates the acoustics of track on foam. I’d like to put something between the foam and track to help deaden the noise. I have thought about cork (sheet or squares), or topper tape. Any other ideas? The layout will be temporary so durability etc is not much of a concern.

BTW I know Unitrack is a better option but I would like to work with what I have on hand. Besides, I’ve got an early test sample of the upcoming #5 turnout (Shh, I work for Atlas  ) and I’d like to incorporate it into the design.

Many thanks for any thoughts.

[glakedylan]

EmdFan
the only alternative i am aware of is the Woodland Scenics roadbed, the kind-of spongey black stuff.
it is cost prohibitive and not sure how well it holds up over time.
FWIW, this is just my awareness. Others here may have other suggestions.
Sincerely
Gary
(Midwest Cork Roadbed user since 1977)

[EmdFan]

Gary,

Thanks, I hadn't thought about the WS roadbed. Actually they have 12x18 sheets, it would take 7 of them to cover the foam base, at about $6.00 a sheet. I can live with that.

Steve

[ednadolski]

I’m one of those people that hates the acoustics of track on foam. I’d like to put something between the foam and track to help deaden the noise. I have thought about cork (sheet or squares), or topper tape. Any other ideas?

Get a sheet of 27x54 1/2" Homasote and glue it onto the foam with a foam-safe construction adhesive.


Ed

[robert3985]

...I’m one of those people that hates the acoustics of track on foam. I’d like to put something between the foam and track to help deaden the noise. I have thought about cork (sheet or squares), or topper tape. Any other ideas? The layout will be temporary so durability etc is not much of a concern.

BTW I know Unitrack is a better option but I would like to work with what I have on hand. Besides, I’ve got an early test sample of the upcoming #5 turnout (Shh, I work for Atlas  ) and I’d like to incorporate it into the design.

Many thanks for any thoughts.

One of the problems with foam is that it acts a lot like a speaker cone, and amplifies whatever little sound that's applied to it. 

I build laminated Masonite subroadbed for my mainlines and mainline sidings and spurs, but I use 3/4" CDX plywood for large industrial areas and my main yards.  I can hear my trains getting noticeably louder when they transition from the laminated Masonite subroadbed to the 3/4" plywood subroadbed. 

After my wiring and trackwork have been operationally verified as functioning perfectly,  I put in my scenery base, which is 2" extruded Styrofoam, and is glued to the sides of my Masonite and plywood subroadbed, the backsides of my laminated Masonite layout fascia and whatever wooden supports I think are necessary mounted to my L-girder benchwork.  When running with a 6' layout section that hasn't had extruded Styrofoam glued in as the scenery base yet, to a section that has the glued-in extruded Styrofoam base, the trains get noticeably noisier...track noise and engine noise.

To duplicate the large desert grassy areas surrounding the UP mainline running through Weber and Echo Canyons and points between those two locations, I glue panels of tan felt to the carved surface of the extruded Styrofoam scenery base using acrylic tile cement.  After the cement under the felt panels is dry, I tease up the felt fibers in various ways to represent several different styles of grasses that grow alongside the UP trackage here in Utah.  Then, I spray them several shades of green depending on their location...then sift on various grades of fine dirt, and other "real rock" treatments, and sock it all down with a careful application of my white-glue ballast cement.

This treatment, along with rock carvings/castings, latex paint, trees and Envirotex water (the Weber River and Echo River) brings the noise amplification back down to just a bit over what running trains without any extruded Styrofoam scenery base was.

So...just adding scenery inhibits the noise amplification problem of extruded Styrofoam.

Although it would be more work that just running trains on a rectangular piece of 2" extruded Styrofoam, if you built a glued-and-screwed frame from wood, with one or two 2X2 supports underneath, which the extruded Styrofoam body of your layout was glued to...with lo-temp hot glue, and the edges of the layout were also glued to the outside wooden frame, I think this would minimize the noise amplification that an unsupported extruded Styrofoam layout is going to give you.

I can see where laying your Atlas True Track on cork or Homasote might also help deaden the sound, but gluing on a layer of thick felt underneath, or as a scenic element on top like I do, would be more effective.  With your small temporary layout size, I think building a wooden frame with one or two generous cross-supports, gluing your rectangle of extruded Styrofoam to it (edges and underneath) then adding a layer of felt underneath...then normal scenery above after your scenery base has been carved to shape...will go a long way to minimize track noise from running trains.

If you're just making a table out of your piece of extruded Styrofoam and you want to keep the top flat, gluing felt to both the upper and lower surfaces will do the trick, and I believe that you can get felt squares with a peel and stick protocol on one side, which would make it even easier.  Pull up the surface a bit with a file card for additional deadening.

From a versatility aspect, Unitrack is probably the better bet over True Track. But, True Track is a much better looking product IMHO, and for your simple layout, I'm sure it will work fine and look exponentially better than Unitrack. 

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

 

[EmdFan]

Thanks for the replies! I always liked working with homasote, I wonder if I can get it cut to size (the joys of condo living, no place for sawing etc).

Thanks for the detailed reply Bob. Agree that scenery would help with the noise. Had not thought about felt, that is an interesting idea. And an inexpensive one at that.

I recall a thread somewhere about this situation, and it was suggested that the use of adhesives that do not harden fully (adhesive caulk, matte medium instead of white glue for ballast etc) also help to quiet things down a bit too.

I won't fret over it, I need to remind myself it's just temporary. Sometimes I get caught up in worrying about nothing it seems.

Worst case I crank my guitar amp up to 10 while running trains! 

Oh wait, there's that condo thing again....

[mmagliaro]

I actually put my track directly on the 2" foam on my current layout without any actual roadbed material. 

I second the idea of the scenery.  Once you have ground foam and other glue/rock/dirt scenery materials glued to the 2" foam base, its tendency to act like a snare drum head (amplifying the noise) goes away.

I used the WS foam roadbed on a previous layout and would not use it again.  It's too squishy and it is very easy for just a casual lean of a hand to make it sag under the track, introducing a dip in the rails.

[Mike C]

Thanks for the replies! I always liked working with homasote, I wonder if I can get it cut to size (the joys of condo living, no place for sawing etc).

   Cascade Rail Supply makes Homasote road bed ( Homabed )  I used it on my HOn3 layout and really like it .....Mike
https://cascaderailsupply.com/collections

[Iain]

The problems with homasote are it is very heavy and it is dimensionally unstable with large humidity swings.

Better to go with straight hard extruded foam with felt underneath to dampen the sound.

As far as the WS foam, every installation I have seen of it has been rather problematic due to how soft it is.

[CNscale]

Based on my experience I would not use WS foam again, because of the spongieness. And once covered with ballast and glue any sound-deadening properties it might have had are lost anyway.

[CRL]

I use celluclay for a base scenery layer over my foam base. It is a paper mache product. When mixed with latex paint and water to form an paste, it is troweled over the foam in a thin layer (to prevent cracking since it shrinks as it dries), then dirt or ground foam can be sifted directly while still wet. Then spray wet water until the pain starts to show. Let dry and you’re done. If desired, add a spray of scenic cement if needed.

This helps dampen any sound from the foam base.

BTW, white bead board foam resonates less than the blue extruded foam, but it’s not as structural.

[EmdFan]

Many thanks for all the input. It sounds like it's best to stay away from the WS foam. I'm thinking that I either put the track directly on the foam or use Homabed, then put felt on the bottom of the foam and get the scenery going sooner than later.

I'm looking forward to this little project. I put a fair amount of time into my HO switching layout, but I seem to be enjoying getting back to N. I love operations, but I am ready for some roundy round action. I'm ready to just sit back and railfan a layout.

[peteski]

In your initial post you mentioned that you did consider the old-school cork. What was the reason you eliminated that possibility?   It was the mainstay of model train layouts for decades, and even now many modelers still use the good ol' cork. It comes in pre-cut roadbed style and in sheets.

[EmdFan]

In your initial post you mentioned that you did consider the old-school cork. What was the reason you eliminated that possibility?   It was the mainstay of model train layouts for decades, and even now many modelers still use the good ol' cork. It comes in pre-cut roadbed style and in sheets.

Good point, I did get sidetracked with other options. Perhaps sheets or 12” squares would work as well. I would probably not use the pre cut roadbed because it would raise the track height quite a bit (although True Track is not as tall as Unitrack).

Lots of good ideas in this thread, thanks to all.

[MVW]

I use the WS foam roadbed in both strips (for the mainline) and sheets (for yards). Certainly isn't cost-prohibitive.

My layout is only 4.5 years old, but it's all held up well so far. I plan to continue using the product.

Jim