Author Topic: E-R Sharknose locos -- slowpokes?  (Read 2196 times)

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OldEastRR

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E-R Sharknose locos -- slowpokes?
« on: June 10, 2019, 03:39:08 AM »
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I've had a pair of these for a while but they don't run very fast. Spoookshow says this is normal, but is the speed range accurate? I'm not looking for a rocket on rails but it does seem like a slow loco at top speed,


brokemoto

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Re: E-R Sharknose locos -- slowpokes?
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2019, 07:27:31 AM »
+1
They do run slowly.  Their top speed is something on the order of forty SMPH.  The prototype was rated for seventy MPH, according to the statistics sheet shown in the Edson/Vail Book, New York Central System Diesel Locomotives.

Everything that I have read about these things suggests that they were used mostly in slow freight service hauling commodities such as coal.  When they worked properly (which was not often, according to what I have read), they were very good in slow freight service.  The original owners were B&O, NYC and Penn.  Penn and one Chicago area railroad (C&WI?.....C&EI?) had some DR-4-4-15 (babyfaces) that had shark bodies.  The Chicago road sold its to the B&O in the late 1950s(?).  B&O and NYC's lasted only into the early 1960s.  Two A-B pairs of NYC's went to the Monongahela.  Monongahela did run the Bs for a time, then cannibalised them for parts and sent the hulks somewhere (GE?).  The MON's two As eventually wound up on the Delaware and Hudson.  They still exist, but have been under tarpaulins somewhere in Michigan for some time.

The Penn's lasted the longest, as a group, into the mid to late 1960s.  Most of the photographs of that era that I have seen of Penn's show their working on the Delaware/Maryland Eastern Shore line.  Some of those photographs show some of them still in five stripe paint scheme and that paint scheme is actually in pretty good condition.  This surprised me, as railroads usually painted into new schemes during major shoppings.  These things required major shoppings frequently, according to what I have read.

Sharky_McSharknose

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Re: E-R Sharknose locos -- slowpokes?
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2019, 04:53:26 PM »
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Check the truck gears for cracking. That will make them even slower and noisier. If the truck gears are black, they should be OK. If they are white, then they are the ones to keep an eye on. IIRC they were made in the Bachmann factory and B-mann sold the leftover E-R stock when they went out of business. I don't know if B-Mann sells replacement gears or even supports these.

I found this old thread, it looks like if you want more speed then your only option is to swap the shell onto another mechanism.
https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=28140.0

OldEastRR

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Re: E-R Sharknose locos -- slowpokes?
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2019, 07:42:23 PM »
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They are white gears, but these locos have had maybe 5 minutes run time total, so none are cracked. They came in the E-R original box, and I could have sworn I bought them from Walthers. I've never bought stuff directly from Bachmann.
I'm not keeping them, they're part of the batch of locos I'm selling. I just wanted to know if they were built to run slow, or if I had a bum set.

wm3798

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Re: E-R Sharknose locos -- slowpokes?
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2019, 08:07:40 PM »
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The gears would crack because the axles were too tight in the nylon holes...  They didn't have to run at all to crack...
Route of the Alpha Jets

Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net

propmeup1@verizon.net

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Re: E-R Sharknose locos -- slowpokes?
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2019, 03:53:55 PM »
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I got word that BLI will probably do them in today's standards.  Hopefully they have better pick ups then the last few of their diesels I purchased including the T1s.  They also been making the steam with diecast bodies. Why don't they do the same for the diesels, better pulling power. I find their AC6000 and EC44 are dogs even on a 1.34%.

OldEastRR

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Re: E-R Sharknose locos -- slowpokes?
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2019, 04:57:17 PM »
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WEll it makes sense BLI would do sharknoses -- they're very Pennsy. I better get rid of these soon.

muktown128

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Re: E-R Sharknose locos -- slowpokes?
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2019, 09:15:22 PM »
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Maybe BLI will do Pennsy passenger sharks!

Sharky_McSharknose

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Re: E-R Sharknose locos -- slowpokes?
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2019, 10:56:19 AM »
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For anyone with the early E-R Sharks, I have some bad news. I e-mailed Bachmann asking them if they had the replacement gears in stock, and they said they sold out of them a while ago. If anyone here is looking for a new 3D printing project, this might be up your alley.

I could swear I've also seen posts on some forum saying the gears are the same as in the Bachmann F7 of the same year. If I can find one of those for extra cheap... too bad there are no train shows nearby me for a few more months.

brokemoto

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Re: E-R Sharknose locos -- slowpokes?
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2019, 01:38:34 PM »
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For anyone with the early E-R Sharks, I have some bad news. I e-mailed Bachmann asking them if they had the replacement gears in stock, and they said they sold out of them a while ago. If anyone here is looking for a new 3D printing project, this might be up your alley.

I could swear I've also seen posts on some forum saying the gears are the same as in the Bachmann F7 of the same year. If I can find one of those for extra cheap... too bad there are no train shows nearby me for a few more months.

I was unaware that the white gears in these things showed the same problems as those in the B-mann power that had them.  When these things first appeared, B-mann was aware of the problem with the white gears.

I have four A-B pairs and two A units.  The four A-B pairs are B&O original Blue and Grey, which was in the second run of these.  The first runs were all later paint schemes.  Three of my B&Os have white gears, one has black.  None are showing any
 problems, Y-E-T.  Both of the A units have white gears.  One runs well, the other one is drawing more current than are any of the others, but, is not showing the clicking and other funny noises that indicated cracking on the B-manns.

I did have one of the Penn single stripes and two of the NYC cigar bands, which were from the first run.  I sold them some time back, and do recall that some of them were balky or made funny noises.  There might have been one that was locked up, a B unit, if I recall.   I did, of course, advise prospective purchasers of the problems, but stated that I did not know what the sources were.  I guess that now I do.  I can not recall if any of my NYC lightning stripes or Penn five stripes had those problems, though.  I had two A-B pairs of each.  I sold them, as well.

If the B-mann "standards" or "DCC' F-7 wheelsets will fit, B=mann's website is showing both gears and wheelsets available for the "standard" and gears only, for the "DCC".  The photographs show only white gears, though.  People have stated that they are selling the black gears even though the photograph shows white, but, I have not managed to verify that.

If the F wheelsets or gears will fit, and, B-mann is selling the black gears, I will be ordering some. 

Before I contact B-mann and wind up waiting for someone to answer who has no idea of the correct answer, does anyone else out there have any related experience?

Bill H

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Re: E-R Sharknose locos -- slowpokes?
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2019, 12:17:06 PM »
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Spook also noticed that they are quite noisy. I had a set of the first run B&O and sold them, I could not stand the noise they made and always thought it was something to do with the gearing. Did anyone ever solve the noise issue?

thomasjmdavis

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Re: E-R Sharknose locos -- slowpokes?
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2019, 12:40:32 PM »
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I am working on a set of Sharks that are JNJ shells on EDIT- Atlas/Kato RS2 (or are they RS3?) frames (the frames take just a bit of filing to fit the cab end of the A units.  Has anyone tried fitting the E-R shell to Kato or other RS frame? (I realize it is a lot more expensive than replacing a gear, but the Kato frames and mechanism are reliable, quiet, and readily available 2nd hand).
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 07:20:54 PM by thomasjmdavis »
Tom D.

Some things are better left unsaid. Which I generally realize right after I have said them.

narrowminded

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Re: E-R Sharknose locos -- slowpokes?
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2019, 07:15:31 PM »
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For anyone with the early E-R Sharks, I have some bad news. I e-mailed Bachmann asking them if they had the replacement gears in stock, and they said they sold out of them a while ago. If anyone here is looking for a new 3D printing project, this might be up your alley.

I could swear I've also seen posts on some forum saying the gears are the same as in the Bachmann F7 of the same year. If I can find one of those for extra cheap... too bad there are no train shows nearby me for a few more months.

With Bachmann but also many of the manufacturers, there are many gears that can be interchanged.  Most of them are .3 mod teeth and many of the axles are the same, 1.5mm, I think. :|  The most important part is the tooth pitch and number of teeth.  With .3 MOD being VERY common, the tooth count is often the only real difference and most are within a few teeth range.  Point is, there's a LOT of interchangeability.  Count the teeth and check for an offset to one side.  Even axles are often the same but drilling out or sleeving down aren't all that difficult to accomplish if you can match the teeth.  Point is, don't be too quick to dismiss the possibility/ likelihood of finding matching final drive gears from a host of donors. 8)
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 07:34:45 PM by narrowminded »
Mark G.

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Re: E-R Sharknose locos -- slowpokes?
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2019, 12:16:12 AM »
+1
I am working on a set of Sharks that are JNJ shells on EDIT- Atlas/Kato RS2 (or are they RS3?) frames (the frames take just a bit of filing to fit the cab end of the A units.  Has anyone tried fitting the E-R shell to Kato or other RS frame? (I realize it is a lot more expensive than replacing a gear, but the Kato frames and mechanism are reliable, quiet, and readily available 2nd hand).

Tom, I used the Kato RS 11 chassis under my two As. I just had to file a little bit off the edge of the front side of the chassis to fit the
angle on the bottom of the shell. I used unimates on the back, mounted in the truck mounted box and 1015 on the nose of the trailing unit.
I put a MT TS on the nose of the lead unit.
They fit snug and don't fall out when picked up by the shell. They cruise nicely pulling my D&H "excursion" train instead of creeping along like they were under slow orders.

Greg O.

strummer

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Re: E-R Sharknose locos -- slowpokes?
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2019, 10:00:36 AM »
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Late to the conversation (as usual)...  :)

I'm going to call this post "A Tale of Two Dummies".

Yesterday's mail brought a B-unit of this model: in Monongahela markings. I had read the the eBay listing as "un-powered",  but when I first opened up the box I was struck by the weight: awfully heavy for a dummy. It also had (the dreaded white) gears. It then dawned on me that this must be a powered unit.

Seems I mis-read the eBay listing; I thought it read "un-powered", but it actually said "un-tested".  :facepalm:

So I put it on the test track and sure enough, it runs; very well actually. Not as quiet as a Kato or Atlas, but not bad. And no sign of split gears, at least as far as I can tell. So it appears that this dummy (me, not the model) got lucky again.

I suppose that, like a lot of F units, the "best" way to go coupler-wise is...Unimates?

Mark in Oregon

PS: Now to find a matching A unit...  :|