Author Topic: Kato N scale CNW 400 with all new Pullman Bi-levels just announced  (Read 2570 times)

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nickelplate759

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Re: Kato N scale CNW 400 with all new Pullman Bi-levels just announced
« Reply #60 on: June 11, 2019, 11:27:49 PM »
+1
After looking at the pictures and reading all the ad copy, I think that Kato is actually producing the following bi-level designs:
Shell 1. A suburban cab-coach.   These were sometimes used on the  intercity (400) trains and by Amtrak, but most were (are?) used in commuter services.
Shell 2. A suburban coach.  Not normally used on the 400s, but sometimes in a pinch.  They look similar to, but not identical to, the coaches used on the 400s.  Most obvious difference is only 2 vents over the door on the suburban coach and 3 vents on the intercity coach.
Shell 3. A coach-buffet.  Used in the intercity trains. Note that it has the 3 vents over the door.

I think they are using Shell 2 (suburban coach) for intercity coaches 700, 705, and parlor 6400.  I'm fine with that as a compromise - it's really a very small one.

The obvious differences between the coach and the parlor would have been inside the car, and parlor 6400 was converted to a coach at some point

I'm thrilled that these are coming. I've been sort of working on building a train like this from the old Con-Cor suburban coaches, and discovered that they need a LOT of work to look right.  For starters they ride too high, but there are other bits that are oddly proportioned as well (like the doors). Also, the trucks aren't very close.  I'm glad I didn't get too far with this :)

« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 06:25:33 PM by nickelplate759 »
George

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I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.

Nato

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Extra cars will be available as single kits.
« Reply #61 on: June 12, 2019, 01:00:37 AM »
0
 :|  Now I get the E Mail from KATO USA announcing the only way to get single cars to add on to your set will be as single car kits, these easy to assemble kits were available as parts department specials with other cars like UP and Santa Fe, but this release will be different, you will have to reserve through a dealer, and the individual cars,coach, snack coach, and cab car will cost "Yikes!" $40.00 a car.                Nate Goodman (Nato). Salt Lake, Utah.  :|

Point353

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Re: Extra cars will be available as single kits.
« Reply #62 on: June 12, 2019, 01:41:03 AM »
0
:|  Now I get the E Mail from KATO USA announcing the only way to get single cars to add on to your set will be as single car kits, these easy to assemble kits were available as parts department specials with other cars like UP and Santa Fe, but this release will be different, you will have to reserve through a dealer, and the individual cars,coach, snack coach, and cab car will cost "Yikes!" $40.00 a car.                Nate Goodman (Nato). Salt Lake, Utah.  :|
The email does state that "This will be the ONLY way the individual C&NW Bi-Level cars will be released for the time being", so you could wait to see if there will be a subsequent production run that might offer these cars fully-assembled. Of course, that would likely depend upon how well the first run sells.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 03:38:58 PM by Point353 »

nightmare0331

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Re: Kato N scale CNW 400 with all new Pullman Bi-levels just announced
« Reply #63 on: June 12, 2019, 09:48:54 AM »
0
After looking at the pictures and reading all the ad copy, I think that Kato is actually producing the following bi-level designs:
Shell 1. A suburban cab-coach.   These were sometimes used on the  intercity (400) trains and by Amtrak, but most were (are?) used in commuter services.
Shell 2. A suburban coach.  Not normally used on the 400s, but sometimes in a pinch.  They look similar to, but not identical to, the coaches used on the 400s.  Most obvious difference is only 2 vents over the door on the suburban coach and 3 vents on the intercity coach.
Shell 3. A coach-buffet.  Used in the intercity trains. Note that it has the 3 vents over the door.

I think they are using Shell 2 (suburban coach) for intercity coaches 700, 705, and parlor 6400.  I'm fine with that as a compromise - it's really a very small one.

The obvious differences between the coach and the parlor would have been inside the car, and parlor 6400 was converted to a coach at some point

I'm thrilled that these are coming. I've been sort of working on building a train like this from the old Con-Cor suburban coaches, and discovered that they need a LOT of work to look right.  For starters they ride too high, but there are other bits that are oddly proportioned as well (like the doors). Also, the trucks aren't very close.  I'm glad I didn't get to far with this :)

And we have a winner.  :) 

On a different note...the parts kit cars are essentially just extra components being tacked onto the set production which is why they are by pre-order.  As with most of the parts kits I've seen going out the door it essentially involves screwing the trucks in place and calling it a day.  It's essentially a roundabout way of getting more cars (or...getting the cars if you don't want to purchase the set) since individual release (or three packs or starter series sets or whatever) are quite a way off and uncertain at this time.

For those who do not have a store they want to order the parts specials from, call Kato and ask for Alex.  He will gladly take your pre-order for these over the phone (generally Kato doesn't pre-order parts for individuals but I had a quick discussion with him on that this morning due to the weird nature of this announcement)

Anywhoo...enjoy!

Kelley.
www.dufordmodelworks.com

cjm413

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Re: Kato N scale CNW 400 with all new Pullman Bi-levels just announced
« Reply #64 on: June 12, 2019, 04:50:46 PM »
0
After looking at the pictures and reading all the ad copy, I think that Kato is actually producing the following bi-level designs:
Shell 1. A suburban cab-coach.   These were sometimes used on the  intercity (400) trains and by Amtrak, but most were (are?) used in commuter services.
Shell 2. A suburban coach.  Not normally used on the 400s, but sometimes in a pinch.  They look similar to, but not identical to, the coaches used on the 400s.  Most obvious difference is only 2 vents over the door on the suburban coach and 3 vents on the intercity coach.
Shell 3. A coach-buffet.  Used in the intercity trains. Note that it has the 3 vents over the door.

I think they are using Shell 2 (suburban coach) for intercity coaches 700, 705, and parlor 6400.  I'm fine with that as a compromise - it's really a very small one.

The obvious differences between the coach and the parlor would have been inside the car, and parlor 6400 was converted to a coach at some point

I'm thrilled that these are coming. I've been sort of working on building a train like this from the old Con-Cor suburban coaches, and discovered that they need a LOT of work to look right.  For starters they ride too high, but there are other bits that are oddly proportioned as well (like the doors). Also, the trucks aren't very close.  I'm glad I didn't get to far with this :)

The Amtrak cab cars were rebuilt from the intercity coaches

cjm413

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Re: Kato N scale CNW 400 with all new Pullman Bi-levels just announced
« Reply #65 on: June 12, 2019, 05:12:30 PM »
0
After looking at the pictures and reading all the ad copy, I think that Kato is actually producing the following bi-level designs:
Shell 1. A suburban cab-coach.   These were sometimes used on the  intercity (400) trains and by Amtrak, but most were (are?) used in commuter services.
Shell 2. A suburban coach.  Not normally used on the 400s, but sometimes in a pinch.  They look similar to, but not identical to, the coaches used on the 400s.  Most obvious difference is only 2 vents over the door on the suburban coach and 3 vents on the intercity coach.
Shell 3. A coach-buffet.  Used in the intercity trains. Note that it has the 3 vents over the door.

I think they are using Shell 2 (suburban coach) for intercity coaches 700, 705, and parlor 6400.  I'm fine with that as a compromise - it's really a very small one.

The obvious differences between the coach and the parlor would have been inside the car, and parlor 6400 was converted to a coach at some point

I'm thrilled that these are coming. I've been sort of working on building a train like this from the old Con-Cor suburban coaches, and discovered that they need a LOT of work to look right.  For starters they ride too high, but there are other bits that are oddly proportioned as well (like the doors). Also, the trucks aren't very close.  I'm glad I didn't get to far with this :)

...and yes, those Con-Cor cars are a PITA.

I used MTL trucks since they don't have the outside swing hangers like the Con-Cor trucks.

The ride height can be improved by removing the raised "ring" around the top of the bolster hole on the MTL trucks and body-mounting new couplers (I used 1015's since I already had them at the time, I haven't tried 1016's or 1025's)

If you have an older run car with the cast weight, it will need to be removed after the car has been lowered.

I never got around to upgrading the details aside from replacing any broken stirrups, and at this point, will probably hold off on putting any more work into them.

spookshow

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Re: Kato N scale CNW 400 with all new Pullman Bi-levels just announced
« Reply #66 on: June 12, 2019, 07:17:17 PM »
0
Dumb question, but I always see these sorts of cars referred to as "gallery commuter cars". What does the "gallery" part refer to?

Thanks,
-Mark

C855B

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Re: Kato N scale CNW 400 with all new Pullman Bi-levels just announced
« Reply #67 on: June 12, 2019, 07:46:51 PM »
0
Dumb question, but I always see these sorts of cars referred to as "gallery commuter cars". What does the "gallery" part refer to?

Not a dumb question. Gallery interiors have two-level seating, but the upper deck is single seats along two separate aisles on the sides, leaving the center aisle on the lower deck open all the way to the car roof. Hence the "gallery" part.
...mike

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We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents. We just don't tell anybody. -Bob Ross

spookshow

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Re: Kato N scale CNW 400 with all new Pullman Bi-levels just announced
« Reply #68 on: June 12, 2019, 10:13:03 PM »
0
Thanks, Mike. So, is "bi-level" and "gallery" basically synonymous (at least as far as these types of cars are concerned)?

-Mark

cnw780

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Re: Kato N scale CNW 400 with all new Pullman Bi-levels just announced
« Reply #69 on: June 12, 2019, 11:26:40 PM »
0
Three questions I have are:

1)  What are the interiors of theses cars going to be like?  Are they going to be appropriate for the commuter cars or the inter-city cars?
2)  Some sources I have state the Coach-Parlor was numbered 600 whereas the full parlor car was number 6400.  Kato's info lists the Coach-Palor as 6400.  Does anyone else concur with this?
3)  Has anyone found online stores that are taking pre-orders for just the individual cars?

Tim

C855B

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Re: Kato N scale CNW 400 with all new Pullman Bi-levels just announced
« Reply #70 on: June 12, 2019, 11:43:54 PM »
0
Thanks, Mike. So, is "bi-level" and "gallery" basically synonymous (at least as far as these types of cars are concerned)?

Yes. I've just been told "same thing": "gallery" = SP, "bi-level" = Chicago. Learn something new every day. (Thanks, Justin!)
...mike

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We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents. We just don't tell anybody. -Bob Ross

nickelplate759

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Re: Kato N scale CNW 400 with all new Pullman Bi-levels just announced
« Reply #71 on: June 13, 2019, 12:21:19 AM »
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On the C&NW, Gallery and Bi-level are the same thing.  Essentially, rather than have a full 2nd floor (like a Superliner does, or a dome car), the gallery resembles a sort of balcony along both sides of the car.  There are stairs to the gallery next to the center doors.  I don't think there was full headroom between the 1st floor seats and the gallery seats.
George

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I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.

brill27mcb

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Re: Kato N scale CNW 400 with all new Pullman Bi-levels just announced
« Reply #72 on: June 13, 2019, 05:33:15 PM »
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My understanding is that this design allowed a conductor to collect tickets from both levels on one pass-through.

Rich K.

nickelplate759

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Re: Kato N scale CNW 400 with all new Pullman Bi-levels just announced
« Reply #73 on: June 13, 2019, 06:15:50 PM »
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It sure did (I rode them daily in the late 1980s); the conductor never came upstairs.
I don't know it the was the entire point of the design however.
George

NKPH&TS #3628

I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.

C855B

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Re: Kato N scale CNW 400 with all new Pullman Bi-levels just announced
« Reply #74 on: June 13, 2019, 08:00:35 PM »
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It sure did (I rode them daily in the late 1980s); the conductor never came upstairs.
I don't know it the was the entire point of the design however.

An accidental benefit of the design, I think. The problem with two levels is you can't have walking-height ceilings from end to end, to do so would make the car too tall. You'll notice that two-level cars are either gallery configuration (low ceiling over the lower seats), or the lower floor is between the bolsters in a fishbelly. Very much similar to double-stack containers in well cars.

One exception that comes to mind are the Alaska RR Ultradomes. You might notice they somehow seem slightly taller than most two-level cars, which of course is because they are. They would not pass high clearance templates on a lot of RRs.
...mike

http://www.gibboncozadandwestern.com

We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents. We just don't tell anybody. -Bob Ross