Author Topic: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!  (Read 3901 times)

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rapidomike

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Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
« Reply #75 on: June 11, 2019, 05:26:09 PM »
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While I have no first hand knowledge about the reason for wide Phase III stripes, I suspect that the Horizon cars were originally painted with the narrow Phase III stripes, but then the wide Phase III stripes were used to match the stripes on Amfleets.

That makes sense, making them match the Amfleets. I was just chatting with my co-worker across the hall, and he heard from a source that the change was made mid-production after a number of cars had already been delivered. I had assumed that the change happened sometime after they all entered service, but I was wrong (assuming the friend of a friend is correct)!

Ngineer

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Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
« Reply #76 on: June 13, 2019, 11:19:05 AM »
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That makes sense, making them match the Amfleets. I was just chatting with my co-worker across the hall, and he heard from a source that the change was made mid-production after a number of cars had already been delivered. I had assumed that the change happened sometime after they all entered service,

Did Amtrak repaint them quickly? Or did Amtrak keep both versions, the one with the broader and the one with the narrower stripes?

   Javier

jagged ben

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Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
« Reply #77 on: June 14, 2019, 07:36:24 PM »
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Both the Ski Train and the Amtrak California would sell in N.  So far as I've noticed, everything Rapido does in N sells out.

peteski

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Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
« Reply #78 on: June 14, 2019, 07:48:20 PM »
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Both the Ski Train and the Amtrak California would sell in N.  So far as I've noticed, everything Rapido does in N sells out.

Maybe because Rapido does careful  market research, and they only produce models they think will sell well.  :trollface:  :D
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Point353

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Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
« Reply #79 on: June 14, 2019, 08:28:00 PM »
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So far as I've noticed, everything Rapido does in N sells out.
That usually happens when you closely match production quantities to pre-order quantities.

jagged ben

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Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
« Reply #80 on: June 14, 2019, 09:31:19 PM »
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Wait...
These are ... these? 

nickelplate759

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Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
« Reply #81 on: June 14, 2019, 10:41:37 PM »
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Yes!
George

NKPH&TS #3628

I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.

jagged ben

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Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
« Reply #82 on: June 14, 2019, 11:11:05 PM »
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Yeah, I'll be in for some phase III then, I guess.  Note that the train in the photo has a mix of the narrow and wide Phase III scheme.  Now to also land one of the OOP atlas Pepsi-Can B32-8s on eBay... :facepalm:

But now to the Amtrak California scheme...
@rapidomike
While these may be too new for me (although on the other hand I need something to run with my Athearn Amtrak California F59PHI), I'm not seeing how it makes sense to offer all three Horizon dinettes and none of the ex-NJT Comet coaches.  A trainset would have one dinette and a bunch of coaches.  Are the coaches just, er, still in the works?   :D

EL3632

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Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
« Reply #83 on: June 16, 2019, 08:16:17 PM »
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But now to the Amtrak California scheme...
...I'm not seeing how it makes sense to offer all three Horizon dinettes and none of the ex-NJT Comet coaches.  A trainset would have one dinette and a bunch of coaches.  Are the coaches just, er, still in the works?   :D

The Amtrak California Comets are not Comet II's, they are called the Comet IB (1B) on NJT, and were rebuilt from Arrow I & II EMU units. The big difference on the Comet IB is the stainless steel ribbed side, typical of the Arrows, but not any other NJT Comet.
The NJT Comets were all styled after the original version, called the EL Push-Pulls before the Comet II arrived, they later got renamed to Comet I when the Comet II's entered service. The Comet I differs from the Comet II by having a different door height, different cabcar cab window location, and later after ditch lights were installed, having them installed under the carbody, versus the Comet II which had them mounted around midway up the carbody.
The Comet II's were also later rebuilt, cabcars as trailer coaches as well as existing trailer coach upgrades, and are currently called Comet IIM.
Here are examples (trailers only):
Comet I: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=304357
Comet IB: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=213347
Comet II: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4590027
Comet IIM: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1086181
Rapido's NJT Comet II's are the originals and good for the 80s to the early 2000s.

jagged ben

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Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
« Reply #84 on: June 17, 2019, 11:54:04 PM »
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The Amtrak California Comets are not Comet II's, they are called the Comet IB (1B) on NJT, and were rebuilt from Arrow I & II EMU units. The big difference on the Comet IB is the stainless steel ribbed side, typical of the Arrows, but not any other NJT Comet.
The NJT Comets were all styled after the original version, called the EL Push-Pulls before the Comet II arrived, they later got renamed to Comet I when the Comet II's entered service. The Comet I differs from the Comet II by having a different door height, different cabcar cab window location, and later after ditch lights were installed, having them installed under the carbody, versus the Comet II which had them mounted around midway up the carbody.
The Comet II's were also later rebuilt, cabcars as trailer coaches as well as existing trailer coach upgrades, and are currently called Comet IIM.
Here are examples (trailers only):
Comet I: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=304357
Comet IB: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=213347
Comet II: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4590027
Comet IIM: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1086181
Rapido's NJT Comet II's are the originals and good for the 80s to the early 2000s.

I see.  Thanks.

peteski

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Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
« Reply #85 on: June 18, 2019, 12:30:28 AM »
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The Amtrak California Comets are not Comet II's, they are called the Comet IB (1B) on NJT, and were rebuilt from Arrow I & II EMU units. The big difference on the Comet IB is the stainless steel ribbed side, typical of the Arrows, but not any other NJT Comet.
The NJT Comets were all styled after the original version, called the EL Push-Pulls before the Comet II arrived, they later got renamed to Comet I when the Comet II's entered service. The Comet I differs from the Comet II by having a different door height, different cabcar cab window location, and later after ditch lights were installed, having them installed under the carbody, versus the Comet II which had them mounted around midway up the carbody.
The Comet II's were also later rebuilt, cabcars as trailer coaches as well as existing trailer coach upgrades, and are currently called Comet IIM.
Here are examples (trailers only):
Comet I: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=304357
Comet IB: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=213347
Comet II: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4590027
Comet IIM: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1086181
Rapido's NJT Comet II's are the originals and good for the 80s to the early 2000s.

So you are saying that the car in both photos is the same car?

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jagged ben

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Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
« Reply #86 on: June 18, 2019, 09:07:50 AM »
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So you are saying that the car in both photos is the same car?

No, he isn't saying that at all.

The first pic shows Horizon cars.  Some Horizon dinettes (like rear car of train) are now in Amtrak California colors.  Rapido has decided to do those cars since they were already doing them in other schemes.

The second pic is a type of Comet coach that Rapido is not doing, some of which were owned by NJT and are now owned by California.   A plausible present day California trainset would include a bunch of these cars plus a Horizon dinette,  but I did not realize that these aren't the Comets that Rapido is tooling.

peteski

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Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
« Reply #87 on: June 18, 2019, 03:30:30 PM »
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No, he isn't saying that at all.

The first pic shows Horizon cars.  Some Horizon dinettes (like rear car of train) are now in Amtrak California colors.  Rapido has decided to do those cars since they were already doing them in other schemes.

The second pic is a type of Comet coach that Rapido is not doing, some of which were owned by NJT and are now owned by California.   A plausible present day California trainset would include a bunch of these cars plus a Horizon dinette,  but I did not realize that these aren't the Comets that Rapido is tooling.

You got excited that the Comets Rapido is producing look like they could be used as the Amtrak Californai cars.   He disagreed, and stated: "The Amtrak California Comets are not Comet II's, they are called the Comet IB (1B) on NJT, and were rebuilt from Arrow I & II EMU units. The big difference on the Comet IB is the stainless steel ribbed side, typical of the Arrows, but not any other NJT Comet. "

He then provided photo links to all various "flavors" of Comets.  So  I took your photo of the Amtrak California Comets and compared to the Comet IB photo he linked to.  That is why I'm confused.  If you click on the Comet IB in his post, it loins ot that fluted stainless steel car with oval windows.
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EL3632

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Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
« Reply #88 on: June 18, 2019, 05:18:36 PM »
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The Amtrak California Dining car is a Horizon Dinette, as is prototypical for what Rapido is making. The coaches are all Comet IB, which Rapido is not making. Rapido is only making the Horizon Dinette car and not the Comet IB coaches.
The first photo @peteski posted has Amtrak Phase III Horizons in it. At the time that photo was taken, the Comet IB cars were still in service with NJT and were not retired for some time (want to say the early to mid 2000's if memory serves). At that time most Horizon cars were repainted to either Amtrak Phase IV or IVb (V).
Here is a side by side photo of the Horizon Dinette with the Comet IB coaches (in AmCal livery): http://subwaynut.com/california/amtrak/oaklandjlq/oaklandjlq153.jpg
« Last Edit: June 18, 2019, 05:29:49 PM by EL3632 »

peteski

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Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
« Reply #89 on: June 18, 2019, 05:41:34 PM »
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The Amtrak California Dining car is a Horizon Dinette, as is prototypical for what Rapido is making. The coaches are all Comet IB, which Rapido is not making. Rapido is only making the Horizon Dinette car and not the Comet IB coaches.
The first photo @peteski posted has Amtrak Phase III Horizons in it. At the time that photo was taken, the Comet IB cars were still in service with NJT and were not retired for some time (want to say the early to mid 2000's if memory serves). At that time most Horizon cars were repainted to either Amtrak Phase IV or IVb (V).
Here is a side by side photo of the Horizon Dinette with the Comet IB coaches (in AmCal livery): http://subwaynut.com/california/amtrak/oaklandjlq/oaklandjlq153.jpg

OK, thanks. I was confused because it seemed that your original reply was to jagged ben posting this photo (and to the commentary that followed):


So, Which cars are in the above photo (in Amtrak Ph III paint)?  Is is even Amtrak California, or some other train?  It seems that I might have misunderstood the entire discussion.  :facepalm:
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