Author Topic: Overland Models AMD-103, original drive - worth Resurrecting?  (Read 1741 times)

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nickelplate759

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Re: Overland Models AMD-103, original drive - worth Resurrecting?
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2019, 03:51:19 PM »
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My "Resurrection" projects all involve a model I already have that has some personal significance but is not runnable on a modern (for me this means code 55 rail and DCC) layout.  In some case (e.g. my Berkshire project) they aren't runnable at all.   They aren't efforts to get a model of a particular prototype. This AMD 103, for example, was a gift and also a reminder of travelling behind such engines;  it doesn't really have a place on an 1950s NKP-themed layout. 

The projects are also (re)engineering challenges that help me broaden my skills.   But most especially, they are fun to do.  If I don't think the project is fun, I don't do it (or don't finish it) - either model goes back in the box or I sell it.
George

NKPH&TS #3628

I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.

peteski

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Re: Overland Models AMD-103, original drive - worth Resurrecting?
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2019, 04:11:45 PM »
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While I'm sure you can improve its running qualities, I don't think you'll be able to get rid of the whine.  The way the mechanism is designed with multiple gears meshing on the high-rpm (motor shaft) side cause the whine.  Normally, the worm is used on that part of the mechanism, with all the gears after the worm, running at much slower (less whiny) rpms.

To me the whine is actually part of the "charm" of this model. Makes it unique in my collection.  :)
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ChristianJDavis1

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Re: Overland Models AMD-103, original drive - worth Resurrecting?
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2019, 04:27:49 PM »
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you obviously have never been on the side of the road working on a 60 year old carburetor...but honestly,  I am trying to convince my dad to keep a Ford flathead in his 1940 Ford Coupe...he plans to swap in a 327 Chevy

Well, I wouldn’t be so quick to say that. I do a fair amount of the “small stuff” on my 54 Oldsmobile, with some of it being on the road (made even more fun when it’s at night). Hopefully your dad can see the light and will keep an original car original. Tell him they make kits for the “looks” of an old car without hurting an original of he so desires.

But back on topic, I am actually looking forward to this thread. I picked one up because it was always one of my favorites growing up, so maybe I can learn a thing or two to do to mine.
- Christian J. Davis

GhengisKong

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Re: Overland Models AMD-103, original drive - worth Resurrecting?
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2019, 07:17:26 PM »
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you obviously have never been on the side of the road working on a 60 year old carburetor...but honestly,  I am trying to convince my dad to keep a Ford flathead in his 1940 Ford Coupe...he plans to swap in a 327 Chevy

Tell him that it is blasphemous and the Chevrolet engines are garbage.

johnb

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Re: Overland Models AMD-103, original drive - worth Resurrecting?
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2019, 08:09:20 PM »
+2
Well, I wouldn’t be so quick to say that. I do a fair amount of the “small stuff” on my 54 Oldsmobile, with some of it being on the road (made even more fun when it’s at night). Hopefully your dad can see the light and will keep an original car original. Tell him they make kits for the “looks” of an old car without hurting an original of he so desires.

But back on topic, I am actually looking forward to this thread. I picked one up because it was always one of my favorites growing up, so maybe I can learn a thing or two to do to mine.
not much is original...

49 Merc flathead bored out to 260CI
ported, polished, relieved and balanced
Iskenderian 3/4 cam
Johnson adjustable lifters
Lincoln Zephyr springs.
Edelbrock 8.5:1 heads
RARE Edelbrock 4 V intake manifold
Edelbrock 600 CFM carb.
Mallory dualpoint, centrifugal advance distributor.
Fenton cast iron headers
true dual exhaust, 2 inch pipe
4 speed Toploader trans with a 2.76 low gear and a jeep top cover shifter(no linkage)
10 1/2'" Borg & Beck clutch
9" ford differential with 3.25:1 gears
Mustang II front suspension and steering
4-wheel disc brakes, ladder bar 4 link rear suspension.

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peteski

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Re: Overland Models AMD-103, original drive - worth Resurrecting?
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2019, 08:43:10 PM »
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I'm loving this way-out-there thread drift.  :)
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FlyGuyB

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Re: Overland Models AMD-103, original drive - worth Resurrecting?
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2019, 12:11:05 PM »
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From Overland trains 1:160 to Ford vs Chevy cars 1:1 is a little more than a drift, almost a hijack! LOL

johnb

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Re: Overland Models AMD-103, original drive - worth Resurrecting?
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2019, 12:21:05 PM »
+1
From Overland trains 1:160 to Ford vs Chevy cars 1:1 is a little more than a drift, almost a hijack! LOL
it was an easy highjacking

CRL

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Re: Overland Models AMD-103, original drive - worth Resurrecting?
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2019, 12:51:39 PM »
+2
More like a carjacking.

peteski

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Re: Overland Models AMD-103, original drive - worth Resurrecting?
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2019, 01:49:56 PM »
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George,  your interest in resurrecting your model made me revisit the info I had on my AMD-103.  I found some old photos I originally posted on the A-board.  I just posted it all in a new thread here: https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=47265.0
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nickelplate759

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Re: Overland Models AMD-103, original drive - worth Resurrecting?
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2019, 03:21:36 PM »
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I've added a decoder into this engine.  Got the lights to reverse with two new LEDs (the original just had a single GOW bulb for ALL headlights at once).  That said, besides being whiny, I think there's an issue with friction in the mechanism.

The decoder is a DZ126.  Yes, I know Digitrax isn't the best for motor control, but they are usually OK.
I haven't adjusted any CVs yet - the behavior I'm describing is with default settings.  I'm hoping for suggestions on settings that might improve things.

The engine runs OK forward, but achieves its fastest speed at a setting of about 11 (no Spinal Tap jokes please) out of what I think is the default range of 28 (is that the Digitrax default?).  In addition, it's top speed is not all that fast - I'm guessing maybe 50 scale MPH?.   In reverse, it runs, but only about half the speed it runs forward.  That doesn't seem right.       

I did NOT disassemble the mechanism (I'm afraid to) to clean out old gear grease.  I DID lubricate motor and gear bearings with my usual bearing oil.  There are a LOT of gear bearings!

I did test it originally on DC, but not extensively, as I only have a short  (2') DC test track and no loop.

Suggestions?

<edit>  I tried it again after letting it sit for an hour - reverse magically improved, but still a little slower than forward.  Top speed forward is still the same - I'm guessing that's as good as it gets.  I've also noticed that top speed pulling or pushing a train (6 Kato Amfleets and 4 Viewliners) is noticeably less, especially in reverse.  </edit>

<2nd edit>  After some more running, I now feel like the top speed is OK, but it still tops out at 11.  I noticed that pulling a heavy train it slows down, especially in reverse.   Would still like some suggestions for motor CVs for this engine</edit>
« Last Edit: August 11, 2019, 06:48:51 PM by nickelplate759 »
George

NKPH&TS #3628

I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.

peteski

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Re: Overland Models AMD-103, original drive - worth Resurrecting?
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2019, 09:14:39 PM »
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<2nd edit>  After some more running, I now feel like the top speed is OK, but it still tops out at 11.  I noticed that pulling a heavy train it slows down, especially in reverse.   Would still like some suggestions for motor CVs for this engine</edit>

Not considering the Spinal Tap thing, what exactly do you mean by 11?!  How does 11 fit into this looking at the big picture?  :D

Decoders can be configured to work in 14-speed-steps or 28/128-speed-steps.  Command stations also have to be configured to match the speed-steps set up in the decoder.  What DCC system are you using, is it set up with the speed steps matching the decoder?  Where are you seeing that 11?

I know that you are familiar with DCC , so take my comments above as semi-humorous, but I don't quite get it.

Assuming that 11 is what you see displayed on some throttle that is capable of showing higher numbers, what is the maximum speed number that it shows (if you crank it to maximum speed)?  Also, are you stating that when you crank the speed knob higher, and the throttle displayed higher numbers than 11, the loco does not seem to go any faster and the sound of the motor does not give any indication of revving higher?  Sorry for being dense.  :|
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nickelplate759

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Re: Overland Models AMD-103, original drive - worth Resurrecting?
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2019, 10:19:22 PM »
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Not considering the Spinal Tap thing, what exactly do you mean by 11?!  How does 11 fit into this looking at the big picture?  :D

Decoders can be configured to work in 14-speed-steps or 28/128-speed-steps.  Command stations also have to be configured to match the speed-steps set up in the decoder.  What DCC system are you using, is it set up with the speed steps matching the decoder?  Where are you seeing that 11?

I know that you are familiar with DCC , so take my comments above as semi-humorous, but I don't quite get it.

Assuming that 11 is what you see displayed on some throttle that is capable of showing higher numbers, what is the maximum speed number that it shows (if you crank it to maximum speed)?  Also, are you stating that when you crank the speed knob higher, and the throttle displayed higher numbers than 11, the loco does not seem to go any faster and the sound of the motor does not give any indication of revving higher?  Sorry for being dense.  :|

Good questions.  I'm familiar with DCC, but by no means expert.
The throttle is an NCE Power Cab.
It shows "11".  With this particular decoder the scale goes to 28.
I know that there are three different scales for speed control - 14, 28, and 128. 
I haven't changed the default scale for either the throttle or the decoder.

Does that clarify anything?

I thought that speed steps was a setting only on the decoder.  Is it on both?
George

NKPH&TS #3628

I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.

peteski

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Re: Overland Models AMD-103, original drive - worth Resurrecting?
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2019, 10:42:09 PM »
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Good questions.  I'm familiar with DCC, but by no means expert.
The throttle is an NCE Power Cab.
It shows "11".  With this particular decoder the scale goes to 28.
I know that there are three different scales for speed control - 14, 28, and 128. 
I haven't changed the default scale for either the throttle or the decoder.

Does that clarify anything?

I thought that speed steps was a setting only on the decoder.  Is it on both?

Yes, that clarifies things.

Yes, the DCC throttle needs to be set for the same number of speed-steps that is used in the decoder, or strange things can happen.

But those strange things usually happen when the decoder is set for 14 and throttle for 28/128. 28 and 128 are interchangeable.
Here is some good reading: https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/home/technical-discussions/decoder-motor-drive/mixing-up-speed-step-modes
And more good reading: https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/home/technical-discussions/decoder-motor-drive/14-28-and-128-speed-steps

If the model does not seem to increase its speed between 11 and 28 then it seems to me that the decoder is the problem. Maybe it has a speed curve enabled (either 3-step or full 28-step) and the maximum speed is lowered?  Have you tried resetting the decoder (on programming track write "8" to CV8)?

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nickelplate759

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Re: Overland Models AMD-103, original drive - worth Resurrecting?
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2019, 11:36:25 PM »
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Thanks for the pointers. I read those and learned a few things, but nothing that clarifies what I'm seeing.

It's a brand new DZ126 decoder, and I haven't changed anything other than the address.
Is the default 28 steps or 14 ( I know it's not 128)?
It sure seems like my controller thinks it should be using 28 steps, and if I understand Digitrax documentation their decoders should default to 28 as well.   I'm a little confused.  Is it possible that this is just how the motor behaves under DCC?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 12:04:00 AM by nickelplate759 »
George

NKPH&TS #3628

I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.