Author Topic: Why Does The Need for (Proper) Speaker Enclosures Continue to Elude?  (Read 2039 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

woodone

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 374
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +14
Re: Why Does The Need for (Proper) Speaker Enclosures Continue to Elude?
« Reply #60 on: April 21, 2019, 06:07:18 PM »
0
This is one reason I like SoundTraxx Decoders. You can adjust frequencies on 6 different ones. Raise or lower to hear what the decoder and speaker is putting out. You can also up the volume or lower it, and you can also add reverb, so with these tools you should be able to get the sounds you like!

peteski

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 20529
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +1821
    • Coming (not so) soon...
Re: Why Does The Need for (Proper) Speaker Enclosures Continue to Elude?
« Reply #61 on: April 21, 2019, 10:15:31 PM »
0
While I owned few Athearn locos with Tsunamis, I never really messed around with them until last Thursday (on my friends loco).  The EQL affects all the sounds (it is on the output of the sound mixer), So to me that is really not all that useful.  Plus, after dealing with the super-flexible function remapping on ESU, Tsunami very limited (NMRA standard DCC) remapping capability seriously blows! Then they do not even capable of the 3-step speed curve (they only have CV2 - no CV6 and 5)!  Just like the most basic Bachmann decoders!   :RUEffinKiddingMe:  Not worth the EQL capability!
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 03:31:30 AM by peteski »
--- Peteski de Snarkski
--- Honorary Resident Curmudgeon

jagged ben

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2293
  • Respect: +178
Re: Why Does The Need for (Proper) Speaker Enclosures Continue to Elude?
« Reply #62 on: April 21, 2019, 11:22:48 PM »
0
Actually, now that you mention it, trying the EQ feature on a Soundtrax decoder was what convinced me that quality can be improved with some sound design.  But as Pete relates, since it effects all the sounds' output, it's not what's needed.  I was able to tweak an Athearn F45 to the point where I was happier with the prime mover sound, but unhappy with all the other sounds, particularly the horn.  So, I set the EQ back to default, but ... proof of concept!  (Although that Athearn does also have a larger diameter speaker, being a cowl unit). 

woodone

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 374
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +14
Re: Why Does The Need for (Proper) Speaker Enclosures Continue to Elude?
« Reply #63 on: April 22, 2019, 10:39:49 AM »
0
Peteski, you must have been working with the first generation Tsunami.
The Tsunami2 has A 3 step speed curve. Cv 2, CV 5 and CV 6 adjustment.
Even the Econami has the same thing.

peteski

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 20529
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +1821
    • Coming (not so) soon...
Re: Why Does The Need for (Proper) Speaker Enclosures Continue to Elude?
« Reply #64 on: April 22, 2019, 03:29:42 PM »
0
Peteski, you must have been working with the first generation Tsunami.
The Tsunami2 has A 3 step speed curve. Cv 2, CV 5 and CV 6 adjustment.
Even the Econami has the same thing.

Whatever was installed in Athearn Big Boy (after they stopped using MRC decoders).  I believe it is the 1st gen. decoder.
--- Peteski de Snarkski
--- Honorary Resident Curmudgeon

woodone

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 374
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +14
Re: Why Does The Need for (Proper) Speaker Enclosures Continue to Elude?
« Reply #65 on: April 22, 2019, 05:20:20 PM »
0
That would be the older TSU series Tsunami.
You need to try the new Tsunami2- Bunch of new stuff there .

peteski

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 20529
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +1821
    • Coming (not so) soon...
Re: Why Does The Need for (Proper) Speaker Enclosures Continue to Elude?
« Reply #66 on: April 22, 2019, 06:37:53 PM »
0
That would be the older TSU series Tsunami.
You need to try the new Tsunami2- Bunch of new stuff there .

Not unless I am forced to.  :)  I'm quite happy just workingl with ESU, ZIMO, and QSI sound decoders.
--- Peteski de Snarkski
--- Honorary Resident Curmudgeon

woodone

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 374
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +14
Re: Why Does The Need for (Proper) Speaker Enclosures Continue to Elude?
« Reply #67 on: April 22, 2019, 07:21:35 PM »
0
Oh well, your loss.

peteski

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 20529
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +1821
    • Coming (not so) soon...
Re: Why Does The Need for (Proper) Speaker Enclosures Continue to Elude?
« Reply #68 on: April 22, 2019, 09:19:14 PM »
0
Oh well, your loss.

I thought you were a big ESU fan-boy too.  :|

To be honest, sound decoders and their programming is quite complex, and they are all quite different. It makes sense to me to pick just select few and stick with them.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 09:22:03 PM by peteski »
--- Peteski de Snarkski
--- Honorary Resident Curmudgeon

woodone

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 374
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +14
Re: Why Does The Need for (Proper) Speaker Enclosures Continue to Elude?
« Reply #69 on: April 23, 2019, 09:48:23 AM »
0
I am a DCC installer. So I do use the ESU decoders.
I install what my client wants, so I end up working with most all decoders.
I use ESU decoders in most of the N scale diesels because of the size.
The steamers I try to use the Tsunami’s, the Tsunami is hard to fit into an narrow hood N scale diesel.
The way the wires are connected to the board makes them too tall.
The ESU direct is a big help in N scale diesels- sorry to see the Select go away.
I do like the start delay on the ESU, on steamers you don’t need the delay.
OK, back to sounds- the Tsunami 7 band equalizer has worked very well for me.

jdcolombo

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1750
  • Respect: +548
Re: Why Does The Need for (Proper) Speaker Enclosures Continue to Elude?
« Reply #70 on: April 23, 2019, 11:15:13 AM »
0
It would certainly be possible to do some "sound shaping" for particular sounds (e.g., the prime mover, separately from the bell or horn) to make them sound somewhat better with the tiny speakers we use in model railroading.  But ESU does not do this (nor does anyone else that I'm aware of).  The reason is pretty simple - even within a particular scale (e.g., N or HO), there are a variety of speakers with varied capabilities.  To really make sound shaping work, you'd have to tailor it to the capabilities of a particular speaker.  But then it would be "wrong" for other kinds of speakers. 

While the Tsunami's 7-band EQ may not be ideal, I have found it useful in adjusting sound performance.  I wish ESU had something similar, but they don't, and actually I've found that both the steam and diesel ESU sound files I use (diesel files are all for 1950's prime movers, like the EMD 567C or Alco 539T, 244 or 251B) work pretty darn well with the cell-phone type speakers I use, regardless of size (from 8x12mm to 13x18mm).

With the new ESU V.5, you will be able to adjust individual sounds yourself, and individual-sound shaping might be something to think about . . . On the V.5, one could presumably run the prime mover sound through an EQ program on your computer to customize it, and then re-load it into the sound file.

John C.

Onizukachan

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • Respect: +8
Re: Why Does The Need for (Proper) Speaker Enclosures Continue to Elude?
« Reply #71 on: May 03, 2019, 02:46:52 AM »
0
With the opportunity to EQ the file, there's probably plenty of frequencies in that range to work with already.

The thing to do would be to find an amplifier that can drive an N scale speaker which can also be driven directly by a computer audio output.  Then edit the files to your liking in real time without transferring back and forth to the decoder.  With any decent PC based waveform editing software, one could do all the transformations one wanted to try.  It would take hours to do the setup and minutes to tweak the audio to perfection.  (Well, depending how perfectionist you are.)
The headphone jack is what you are looking for, these little sugar cube speakers take almost no power to drive to adequate listening levels.

PaulCoats

  • Posts: 20
  • Respect: +17
Re: Why Does The Need for (Proper) Speaker Enclosures Continue to Elude?
« Reply #72 on: May 17, 2019, 01:19:07 PM »
0
https://www.jamo.com/products/r909





The "Open Back" baffle is a fad among some speaker builders, and such speakers lack bass.

On the other hand, I have heard some impressive (realistic, not boomy) bass from 6" and 8" drivers in transmission line and rear
horn loaded speakers.  Such a speaker routes the rear wave from the woofer though a long enough duct that by the time it
emerges it is in phase with the front wave.  Yes, it will go in and out of phase at different frequencies.  That is taken care of in
proper stuffing (damping material) in the duct that absorbs higher out of phase frequencies, while allowing the lower in-phase
signals on through.

The baffle is most important.

Point353

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1619
  • Respect: +296
Re: Why Does The Need for (Proper) Speaker Enclosures Continue to Elude?
« Reply #73 on: May 17, 2019, 02:48:19 PM »
0
The "Open Back" baffle is a fad among some speaker builders, and such speakers lack bass.
Is flat response down to 30Hz not sufficient?
http://i.nextmedia.com.au/Assets/Jamo_R909_Loudspeakers_Review_LoRes.pdf

DKS

  • The Pitt
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 11150
  • Your choice for ANAL...
  • Respect: +1732
    • DKS Home
Re: Why Does The Need for (Proper) Speaker Enclosures Continue to Elude?
« Reply #74 on: May 17, 2019, 03:31:51 PM »
0
With an MSRP of around $16,000, the thing had better give me a massage, a bl** *ob, and make coffee for me in the morning...

(On a more serious note, it requires two 16" bass drivers to achieve what many get done with one 8". Just sayin'.)
"Life's a piece of sh!t when you look at it."
                                       —Monty Python