Author Topic: Photon used to make fake fingerprints  (Read 710 times)

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wazzou

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Re: Photon used to make fake fingerprints
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2019, 01:50:23 AM »
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Just a matter of time.
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Maletrain

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Re: Photon used to make fake fingerprints
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2019, 10:44:42 AM »
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Yeah, things are about to get really tough for separating reality from ruse.  With computer-generated-graphics getting realistic enough to "learn" a person's appearance well enough make a actor look exactly like a different, real person, it will soon be possible to have "security camera" footage and fingerprints faked to "prove" that somebody did something that they did not actually do.  I am hoping that somebody demonstrates that technological ability to the public before some foreign government or political operative uses it to manipulate public opinion on an important national issue, or, worse, uses it to frame somebody for a crime (s)he did not commit.  But, once we have broad recognition that it is possible, what will a jury think of real, not-faked evidence when the defense attorneys are arguing that all evidence against their clients might be faked?  Even real DNA can be gathered and transferred to a weapon that the DNA's "owner" never handled.

peteski

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Re: Photon used to make fake fingerprints
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2019, 04:26:31 PM »
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Yeah, things are about to get really tough for separating reality from ruse.  With computer-generated-graphics getting realistic enough to "learn" a person's appearance well enough make a actor look exactly like a different, real person, it will soon be possible to have "security camera" footage and fingerprints faked to "prove" that somebody did something that they did not actually do.  I am hoping that somebody demonstrates that technological ability to the public before some foreign government or political operative uses it to manipulate public opinion on an important national issue, or, worse, uses it to frame somebody for a crime (s)he did not commit.  But, once we have broad recognition that it is possible, what will a jury think of real, not-faked evidence when the defense attorneys are arguing that all evidence against their clients might be faked?  Even real DNA can be gathered and transferred to a weapon that the DNA's "owner" never handled.

Yes, the world is doomed - there is no escape!  And then there will be drones and self-driving cars too.  That's it! I'm going down to my workshop and play with my little trains to forget that I'm doomed. Well, until "they" come and get me.  ;)

I also just heard that FB will start using AI algorithms to find out when their users die, and will automatically stop sending their birthday reminders to their friends.  More big-data mining.  :facepalm:
« Last Edit: April 09, 2019, 04:28:12 PM by peteski »
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sirenwerks

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Re: Photon used to make fake fingerprints
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2019, 04:47:12 PM »
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It's pre-cog time.
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Chris333

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Re: Photon used to make fake fingerprints
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2019, 04:59:52 PM »
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The thing is that finger print scanners were 2D and easy to trick. This new phone used some sort of 3D fingerprint that can read the groove depth or something.

I don't even have a lock on my phone.

David K. Smith

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Re: Photon used to make fake fingerprints
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2019, 05:42:49 PM »
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This new phone used some sort of 3D fingerprint that can read the groove depth or something.

The device uses ultrasonics to send sound pulses to the finger, and an acoustic sensor array reads the grooves according to the reflected sound waves. Since it requires no direct contact, the device can be located right behind the display.
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Maletrain

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Re: Photon used to make fake fingerprints
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2019, 10:22:26 AM »
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I don't even have a lock on my phone.

Neither do I - because I never put anything into my phone that I can't stand to have known by somebody, somewhere who might have malevolent intent.

The problem is that this fingerprint stuff is applicable to far more than cell phones. And, your finger prints can be stolen in many ways.  Mine have been stolen from OPM TWICE

tom mann

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Re: Photon used to make fake fingerprints
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2019, 12:56:26 PM »
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I don't even have a lock on my phone.

We know!

;)

MK

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Re: Photon used to make fake fingerprints
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2019, 01:40:31 PM »
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Mine have been stolen from OPM TWICE.

What's OPM?  And twice?

peteski

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Re: Photon used to make fake fingerprints
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2019, 03:03:20 PM »
+1
Neither do I - because I never put anything into my phone that I can't stand to have known by somebody, somewhere who might have malevolent intent.

The problem is that this fingerprint stuff is applicable to far more than cell phones. And, your finger prints can be stolen in many ways.  Mine have been stolen from OPM TWICE.

Hmm, so how was this resolved?  Did you end up getting yourself a new set of fingerprints?  :D :trollface:

Seriously though, when a password is stolen, a new one can be easily created.  Not quite the same with your body parts (fingerprint/iris, etc.).  Not sure if this biometric security will be as good as it is cracked up to be.
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David K. Smith

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Re: Photon used to make fake fingerprints
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2019, 03:49:44 PM »
+1
This fake fingerprint thing sounds ominous. However, think about it... someone would need to make a copy of your finger in order to unlock your phone. How on earth would they do this? Knock you unconscious and take prints? Why not just knock you unconscious and put your finger on the phone to unlock it? It all sounds like a tempest in a teapot, if you ask me.
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Mark W

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Re: Photon used to make fake fingerprints
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2019, 08:06:43 PM »
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3D printing just means its only slightly more simple than the old fashion way. 

Contact me about custom model building.
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Maletrain

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Re: Photon used to make fake fingerprints
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2019, 10:29:18 AM »
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This fake fingerprint thing sounds ominous. However, think about it... someone would need to make a copy of your finger in order to unlock your phone. How on earth would they do this? Knock you unconscious and take prints? Why not just knock you unconscious and put your finger on the phone to unlock it? It all sounds like a tempest in a teapot, if you ask me.

The problem is that fingerprints are now on electronic file for a lot of people.  And, those files are stolen way to frequently.  So, no need for a crook to have access to your actual fingers.  Pretty much anybody that has a security clearance, firearms purchase permit, or any other government identity that requires trust has their fingerprints stored in hackable digital files.  And, just about every data system is hackable.  Even the Federal Office of Personnel Management (OPM) has been hacked twice (that we know about, so far).  So, all of the data for personnel with top secret clearances is now in the hands of "somebody" who probably has some nefarious intentions.  That includes finger prints, bank account numbers, and all of the personal data and family history needed to answer any screening questions.

And, then there is the other side of those hacks that the media ignores: if a hacker can take info out, then a hacker can put bad info in.  So, fake info can be used to create a trusted identity for a spy or crook.  And, your info can be substituted for the info for another person, perhaps a real spy or criminal who is on the loose or about to be.  Yeah, that could be detected with good backups and checking software, but is it?  Considering how sloppy the security is to begin with, it is hard to believe that the methods to clean-up after security lapses are much better.  And, some of those security lapses go undetected for months or even years, so there is a lot of time for somebody to take your fingerprints or whatever and use them to do whatever they want in your name before that possibility is recognized.


David K. Smith

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Re: Photon used to make fake fingerprints
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2019, 10:37:08 AM »
+3
The problem is that fingerprints are now on electronic file for a lot of people.  And, those files are stolen way to frequently.  So, no need for a crook to have access to your actual fingers.  Pretty much anybody that has a security clearance, firearms purchase permit, or any other government identity that requires trust has their fingerprints stored in hackable digital files.  And, just about every data system is hackable.  Even the Federal Office of Personnel Management (OPM) has been hacked twice (that we know about, so far).  So, all of the data for personnel with top secret clearances is now in the hands of "somebody" who probably has some nefarious intentions.  That includes finger prints, bank account numbers, and all of the personal data and family history needed to answer any screening questions.

And, then there is the other side of those hacks that the media ignores: if a hacker can take info out, then a hacker can put bad info in.  So, fake info can be used to create a trusted identity for a spy or crook.  And, your info can be substituted for the info for another person, perhaps a real spy or criminal who is on the loose or about to be.  Yeah, that could be detected with good backups and checking software, but is it?  Considering how sloppy the security is to begin with, it is hard to believe that the methods to clean-up after security lapses are much better.  And, some of those security lapses go undetected for months or even years, so there is a lot of time for somebody to take your fingerprints or whatever and use them to do whatever they want in your name before that possibility is recognized.

So, realistically speaking, how many people with copies of one's fingerprints are able to turn them into Photon (or other 3D printer) files? More realistically speaking, why would this be done to the average schmo that belongs to Railwire (or, in other words, ordinary people)? This would be a concerted effort targeting people in social circles far, far above those of ordinary folk. So, why should we be worried? This is just more fear-mongering.

Like the whole "killer robot" hysteria that gripped social media a few news cycles ago... tell me how a so-called killer robot (equipped with artificial intelligence--oooh!--give me a break, they can barely walk as it is) is going to annihilate society... insert rolley-eye smilie here...

 
« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 10:48:52 AM by David K. Smith »
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