Model railroad 'ethics'

[peteski]

The only model rail road ethics that I'm familiar with is not to call your train buddies wives MILF's.

Haha! To jest naprawde dowcipne! 

[jdcolombo]

I wasn't going to comment on this thread, because the whole thing brings up one very unpleasant memory.

Many years ago (back in the mid-1990's) I decided to make a fleet of NKP bay window cabooses out of what was then a barely serviceable Model Power bay window.  I bought several of these, stripped them, repainted them, decaled them for the NKP, added Gold Medal Models brass roofwalks, end railings and ladders, and ended up with a decent stand in for an NKP bay window caboose.  Not perfect, but pretty good.  I still have 10 of these and still use them.  But I used to have eleven.

The 11th was sold to a local dealer who sold items at train shows.  He saw my cabeese at a show where we had our Ntrak layout set up, and asked if I would sell him one of them.  I said no.  Then he asked if I would make one for him, because he really wanted it for a client who was an ex-NKP employee, in poor health, and . . . etc.  So I broke down and sold him one of the cabooses for basically what it cost me.  And all was fine.

Until about a year later, when there was an article in N-scale Magazine about the winners at what I think was an NMRA modeling event (or maybe it was an N-Trak show; it's all gone fuzzy over the years).  One of the winners was . . . my caboose.  With the name of the person I sold it to listed as the "modeler."

Needless to say, this did not make me happy.  My unhappiness was expressed in many direct and indirect ways, with the eventual result that the person in question gave me the first-place ribbon he had "won" at this event.  But that wasn't the point.  The point was that no one should ever take credit for someone else's work.   Period.  Not actively.  Not passively.  Not through omission or outright commission.

When I was reviewing the article on my layout in the 2018 Model Railroad Planning, I corrected a few of the photo captions to make absolutely clear that certain buildings on my layout were constructed by our local club members, not me.  I get lots of positive feedback when people see photos of the NKP roundhouse on my layout, and I am always scrupulous about telling anyone who compliments that building that it was the work of Steve Hankel, a member of the Midwest Central Model RR club. 

This is simply the way it must be.  No exceptions.  No if's, and's or but's.  We all need and get help in this hobby, and our corresponding obligation, besides "paying it forward" by helping someone else, is to scrupulously honor the work of others.  I don't know if one calls it "ethics" or "morality" or something else.  It's just the way it must be.

John C.

[superchief]

Sometimes if a model does not win first it is NOT always the models fault, sometime the modeler does not take enough time to fill all the paperwork out or not describe all the work that was done. I have seen people write books on what they did and others say they scratch built this, but did not describe everything they did. This may not be the modeler strong point. I detailed a steam engine and it didn't even place, I filled out an entire separate sheet on what I did and the next time I place second...and I was happy with that. So yes if you do not place first you can re-enter the model, but once you win first take your prize and go home. I entered a contest recently and there was a question I had not seen before. Does the contestant earn more that 51% of his income as a modeler or photographer!! check yes or no.
                                                                                                                  Gordon Bliss

[CBQ Fan]

I think the rules of the event should govern this and if you don’t like the rules don’t enter. Have an interview portion of the contest so the contestant can give a detailed description of how they built it.

[peteski]

I think the rules of the event should govern this and if you don’t like the rules don’t enter. Have an interview portion of the contest so the contestant can give a detailed description of how they built it.

Personal Interview? From my personal involvement in putting on contest, that is way too complicated to be feasible.
In the end, there are no perfect contest (for many reasons).

The closest to perfection is the NNL Show (for automotive models). There are no judged awards given. Hundreds of molders display their models and chew the fat about their building techniques.  There is a popular vote with few awards, but that is a minor part of the event.

[CBQ Fan]

Personal Interview? From my personal involvement in putting on contest, that is way too complicated to be feasible.
In the end, there are no perfect contest (for many reasons).

The closest to perfection is the NNL Show (for automotive models). There are no judged awards given. Hundreds of molders display their models and chew the fat about their building techniques.  There is a popular vote with few awards, but that is a minor part of the event.

Maybe interview top 3. Just suggesting.

[peteski]

Maybe interview top 3. Just suggesting.

But that doesn't work.  You have 10 models entering in a category (before judging). How do you know which are top 3 since they haven't been judged?  And interview after judging?  Well, then it is too late to find out all the details, plus it would give everybody an idea who is winning (before winners are announced).

And then there are popular vote contests too . . .

Model contests depend on the honor system, but some entrants just don't play by the rules. 

[nickelplate759]

Well, here's my 2 cents and a contest story.

First cent:  Taking credit for someone else's work is always wrong.

Second cent:  A contest should be clear on whether they are judging the model or the work.     If it's the model, then even an out-of-the-box model could win - "popular vote" contests are probably like this - and it probably isn't necessary to disclose who did the work but one certainly shouldn't misrepresent it.  If the work is being judged (for example in a scratch-building contest), then who did the work absolutely must be correctly represented.


Story - years ago I entered an N scale doodlebug model, with a body from the old Columbia kit built and painted by me with added details and a powered chassis that I kitbashed, in a local contest in the "passenger car" category.  It won first place  .    It was the only entry in the category, so it was also last place .    I'm still not sure how I feel about that.

[mmagliaro]

Paperwork is important.  Remember, the judges usually only have a few minutes to look at each model, and they aren't necessarily familiar with your prototype or scale, so all they have to go on are photos of the real thing (if you provide them), and your descriptions and photos of what you did.  They can judge how nice and clean the finished product looks, but they can't judge what you did by hand without some help.

That 51% rule is interesting.   I know there's something in the NMRA rules about not allowing entries made by people who are professional model builders or photographers.  That's what the goal of the 51% rule is, I expect.  I can appreciate that they are trying to have contest for people who do this "as a hobby", but it seems to me that at this point, there are plenty of "amateurs" who are at least as good as anybody building models for a living.  And I don't see why a professional should be excluded.  May the best model win, I say.

[cv_acr]

The closest to perfection is the NNL Show (for automotive models). There are no judged awards given. Hundreds of molders display their models and chew the fat about their building techniques.  There is a popular vote with few awards, but that is a minor part of the event.

That's kinda similar to the RPM (railway prototype modeler) meets that have sprung up over the last number of years.

RPM meet "shows" have a bunch of tables for people to bring and show off models (they don't even need to be finished - in-progress models are even encouraged to show off techniques). There's no contests at all though - just display and discussion.

[arbomambo]

most of the replies here have focused on 'judging'...
not my point whatsoever...
  Judging is always going to be subjective; I don't even participate in the contests (I remove my modules/models, etc from consideration as I'm not participating to 'win' anything).
I don't have an issue with 'judging' and have no problem with judges ruling on 'popularity' or whatever.
  My entire question about ethics refers to individuals, entering contests, with work 'not their own' (and certainly not volunteering that info) to 'win' accolades/attention/and, more significantly, prizes that are sometimes quite valuable/expensive.
Personally, I find it completely unethical and morally repugnant, regardless of whether it's 'legal' under the 'rules' of a contest. I'm not trying to 'virtue signal' with my response or opinion...
  I'm just still amazed at people who do this kind of thing...whatever happened to 'doing the right thing'?  At future manufacturer sponsored contests, we are definitely planning to require that modules, considered for judging that will result in prizes, must be built by the owner. Otherwise they will be relegated to an 'honorable mention' with special note identifying the actual builder.

[Dave V]

most of the replies here have focused on 'judging'...
not my point whatsoever...
  Judging is always going to be subjective; I don't even participate in the contests (I remove my modules/models, etc from consideration as I'm not participating to 'win' anything).
I don't have an issue with 'judging' and have no problem with judges ruling on 'popularity' or whatever.
  My entire question about ethics refers to individuals, entering contests, with work 'not their own' (and certainly not volunteering that info) to 'win' accolades/attention/and, more significantly, prizes that are sometimes quite valuable/expensive.
Personally, I find it completely unethical and morally repugnant, regardless of whether it's 'legal' under the 'rules' of a contest. I'm not trying to 'virtue signal' with my response or opinion...
  I'm just still amazed at people who do this kind of thing...whatever happened to 'doing the right thing'?  At future manufacturer sponsored contests, we are definitely planning to require that modules, considered for judging that will result in prizes, must be built by the owner. Otherwise they will be relegated to an 'honorable mention' with special note identifying the actual builder.

It's a larger societal problem though...  We reward the result, not the process.  Win at all costs.  When I was a professor at the Air Force Academy, we had (have) the Honor Code to try to weed that stuff out, but a lot of kids come in not understanding that cheating is wrong.  They were always rewarded for the result in high school no matter how they got there.  My friends who teach at civilian colleges will tell you how bad cheating has gotten there. 

I can't relate...  My parents taught me to be honest.  The military trained me to celebrate the accomplishments of others while never accepting praise for something I didn't do.  But I see the opposite of that all the time in the larger world.

[CRL]

A two year old child is the best example of a person’s basic nature. Unless the child is raised up above that basic nature by it’s parents and taught what’s right and what’s wrong, it will grow into an adult two year old, becoming a problem for society as a whole. Behavior such as discussed at a train show contest is only the tip of an iceberg of bad behavior.

[Point353]

most of the replies here have focused on 'judging'...
not my point whatsoever...
  My entire question about ethics refers to individuals, entering contests, with work 'not their own' (and certainly not volunteering that info) to 'win' accolades/attention/and, more significantly, prizes that are sometimes quite valuable/expensive.
Personally, I find it completely unethical and morally repugnant, regardless of whether it's 'legal' under the 'rules' of a contest. I'm not trying to 'virtue signal' with my response or opinion...
  I'm just still amazed at people who do this kind of thing...whatever happened to 'doing the right thing'? 

Do you have a vested interest in this situation or are you just an 'amicus curiae' and your posts here (and elsewhere) are your way of filing a 'brief' relevant to the 'case'?
How does the module's builder view this situation?
Have you confronted the module's present owner with your concerns?

[CBQ Fan]

But that doesn't work.  You have 10 models entering in a category (before judging). How do you know which are top 3 since they haven't been judged?  And interview after judging?  Well, then it is too late to find out all the details, plus it would give everybody an idea who is winning (before winners are announced).

And then there are popular vote contests too . . .

Model contests depend on the honor system, but some entrants just don't play by the rules.

most all solutions take additional work!