New LokSound V.5 replaces Select, old V.4

[carlso]

I do not want anyone misreading my following comment and for sure I don't particularly like controls on business. That's a whole nother discussion.

But years ago somebody or some organization thought enough of the DCC idea to, and I do not know who, set "standards" for all DCC manufacturers to follow. I think things like the colors of the wiring and I think things like how the pins on plugs were to be wired. Those are about all I am sort of familiar with. Close ? ? It may be time for whomever set up the original standards to sit down again, everybody together, and discuss the way decoders are "connected". By no means am I suggesting that all decoders have to be alike but a standard set up for plugs would make a modelers life much more fun. We would know that what ever style of connection was chosen it would be found in every manufacturers units. How simple to exchange decoders. Most likely the manufacturers would not like that idea, especially if their decoders were not up to snuff with other brands. Then on second thought I have a relatively recent steamer that had all black wires. Go figure.

Just pondering ! !

Carl

[squirrelhunter]

Are they going to release v5 versions of the drop in Atlas/IM boards? Or are they trying to push everyone to Next 18 plugs?

There are a lot of DCC ready locos that folks might consider buying sound boards for if there is a drop on conversion, but I think if they want everyone to do hard wire installs with a plug they are going to miss a change to be the dominant sound decoder in N scale

[reinhardtjh]

Are they going to release v5 versions of the drop in Atlas/IM boards? Or are they trying to push everyone to Next 18 plugs?

Matt Herman of ESU USA has said there will be LokSound 5 versions of the 73100/73199 but not until they use up the inventory of the V4.  With the locomotives that had been announced by Atlas and IM that have been postponed due to the factory problems, they may have had a large inventory build up anticipating use.

[RBrodzinsky]

Carl,

The Next18 plug is one of the Standards (NEM 662), at least in Europe. The NMRA has never adopted it though. Of course, most of the issues we are all experiencing are due to being N or Z scale; the different standards all work wonderfully in the “larger” world. There, this Next18 connector is one of the smallest around!

And then there are all the different designs for the locos we want to cram these into. Getting away from sound, just think about all the different board configurations Digitrax, NCE and TCS make for drop-in decoders.

[jdcolombo]

Carl,

The Next18 plug is one of the Standards (NEM 662), at least in Europe. The NMRA has never adopted it though. Of course, most of the issues we are all experiencing are due to being N or Z scale; the different standards all work wonderfully in the “larger” world. There, this Next18 connector is one of the smallest around!

And then there are all the different designs for the locos we want to cram these into. Getting away from sound, just think about all the different board configurations Digitrax, NCE and TCS make for drop-in decoders.

It's pretty obvious to me that ESU really didn't care much about the world in which we USA N-scalers operate.  If they did, then the LokSound 5 DCC Micro would have been 10mm wide max, and they would have thought through thickness issues.  I just measured the "thin" end of one of my Select Micro wired decoders; it is 2.5 mm (without the shrink wrap), and that 2.5mm thickness extends for 13mm of a 25mm length - over half the board.  The difference between 2.5mm and 4.5mm is huge in N scale when you're trying to shove a decoder into a hood diesel.  I don't think I could have done my RS3 conversion with the LokSound 5 micro.  Probably not the VO1000 either.

The board-style micros certainly help.  Folks here have put those boards in pretty much everything made today (including the tender of an Athearn Big Boy!), so maybe I'm just Don Quixote stabbing at windmills on this issue.  My fleet is done, and I have a few spare Select Micros in case I have a death in the family.  But if ESU were really solicitous of the N-scale after-market install scenario, the 5 micro would look somewhat different.

I still love ESU's products, and I'm sure I'll find ways to work around the issues.  I'm also sure ESU had valid business reasons for doing what they did.  I'm disappointed, but I've been disappointed before (Bachmann Berkshire!) and I'm certain to be disappointed in the future.  Life goes on.

John C.

[woodone]

Well it is all about the $$.
The plug/socket parts are not all that expensive.
A pick and place machine can place the socket on the board in less time than you can blink an eye.
To solder wires to the decoder direct requires manual labor- Soldering wires to the board would take 10 times longer to do over the pick and place machine, and that adds to the cost of making the decoder.
So they add the cost of a few parts and save hours of manual labor time.
MORE profit !
So like John said, we will have to live with what we have been given to work with.
Would I pay $10.00 more for a decoder that has wires and offers me more flexibility, YOU BET !

[peteski]

Well it is all about the $$.
The plug/socket parts are not all that expensive.
A pick and place machine can place the socket on the board in less time than you can blink an eye.
To solder wires to the decoder direct requires manual labor- Soldering wires to the board would take 10 times longer to do over the pick and place machine, and that adds to the cost of making the decoder.
So they add the cost of a few parts and save hours of manual labor time.
MORE profit !
So like John said, we will have to live with what we have been given to work with.
Would I pay $10.00 more for a decoder that has wires and offers me more flexibility, YOU BET !

Or make a v5 micro decoder with solder pads of the same size as on V4, and sell it without wires.  At least those would be more  realistic to solder wires to (unlike tiny connector pads with 0.5mm spacing).

[woodone]

I tried to have a manufacture do that for me, even if I ordered a thousand decoders,  they said NO way.
Too many problems with defective boards (bad decoders)  Not everyone can solder good enough to get wires on with out causing defects.
Then who was at fault?

[reinhardtjh]

After many months of waiting my LokSound 5 Micro decoders are on the way.  Bryan at Streamlined Backshop finally got his order in from ESU and is shipping decoders.

Now I just need to learn the LokProgrammer sound section and sound editing to make my PRR and C&O steam locomotives come alive.

I imagine the other LokSound distributors have or will receive their Micro DCC orders soon.

[RBrodzinsky]

Just received my shipping notice from Bryan, too.

[Steveruger45]

[ Guests cannot view attachments ] On the loksound yahoo group someone mentioned he got his new ESU 5 dcc micro decoder #58823 open wire harness version, direct from ESU to replace a fried select micro.  So I’m guessing if warranties are shipping it won’t be long before the dealers have them.
Looking closely at the picture it does still look like the next18 socket is on this board too, just under the wires,  aft of the soldered joints for said wires.

[RBrodzinsky]

Yes, Matt confirmed, in the past couple weeks, that this is still a Next18, just with wires, not cable.

Kelley already posted photos of these in another thread

[Steveruger45]

Thanks Rick for the confirmation. 
So, what with the decoder being just as wide and thicker I see this as a fail.

[reinhardtjh]

For what it's worth, Bryan has the LogSound 5 Micro with wires available now as do some others.

Streamlined Backshops: -- > https://store.sbs4dcc.com/ESU58823LokSound5MicroNMRADCCSoundDecoder-Hardwire.aspx

Yankee Dabbler: --> https://yankeedabbler.com/58823-esu-loksound-ver-5-dcc-micro-with-wires-generic-ready-for-programming-scales-ho-part-397-58823/

TrainTek LLC: --> https://www.traintekllc.com/esu-58823-loksound-5-micro-dcc-open-wire-harness/

TrainWorld: --> https://www.trainworld.com/manufacturers/esu/esu-58823-loksound-5-micro-dcc-blank-decoder-single-wires/

Tony's Train Exch: --> https://tonystrains.com/product/esu-58823-loksound-v5-dcc-micro-single-wires-sound-decoder-factory-sound-file-no-programming

[tehachapifan]

Ok, with a recent separate thread about successfully installing a V5 in a Scaletrains Dash 9, I'm back to being unclear on the width of the V5's and if they'll fit (most/many/some?) narrow-hood diesels. I've seen it mentioned that they are the exact same width as the older, (non-Direct) Micro, but I'm beginning to wonder about that. Has anyone measured both with digital calipers?