Author Topic: New LokSound V.5 replaces Select, old V.4  (Read 6722 times)

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jdcolombo

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New LokSound V.5 replaces Select, old V.4
« on: February 25, 2019, 09:52:47 AM »
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Hi everyone.

I think someone may have mentioned this in a post in a thread on one of the recent trains shows, but I thought I'd break it out for those of us that have a special interest in sound.

Bryan Vianco (who owns Streamlined Backshop - sbs4dcc) just sent out a new newsletter than contains an interview with Matt Hermann regarding ESU's shift to the new V5 decoder.  According to that interview, the new V5 replaces BOTH the old V4 and the Select.  There are two versions of the V5: a multi-protocol version and a DCC-only version.  Bryan's price on the DCC-only version is about $3 more than the old Select decoder, so the price hasn't changed much (the multi-protocol version is about $20 more). 

The new decoder can use any older V.4 file, BUT NOT SELECT FILES.  Matt said that any Select file that doesn't have a V.4 counterpart (almost all of the newer Full Throttle files have both a Select and V.4 version) will be updated so that the full range of current Select sound files will be available for the V.5 decoder.

What is still somewhat unclear is the following:

1.  What happens to the current Select Direct micro board-style decoders.  The interview did not say anything specific about the board-style decoders, but I do not see them listed on the SBS4DCC web site any longer  [EDIT: THIS IS INCORRECT - SEE MY FOLLOW-UP POST BELOW].  Given that ESU has OEM deals with IM and Atlas that use these board-style decoders, my suspicion is that they will be updated to V5 hardware with the same physical layout.  But Matt did not confirm this in his interview with Bryan.

2.  The exact dimensions of the V5 micro wired decoder are still something of a mystery.  Bryan's web site lists the V.5 micro's dimensions as 21mm x 10mm x 3.8mm:

https://store.sbs4dcc.com/ESU58820LokSound5MicroNMRADCCSoundDecoder-NEM6528-pinWiredPlug.aspx

IF that is true, that's a big deal, because with a 10mm width, the wired Micro will now fit in nearly any N scale hood diesel.  But this appears to be contradicted in the German version of the ESU V.5 decoder manual, which lists the width as still 10.6.  I guess we'll just have to wait until someone buys one of the new wired V.5's and actually measures it.

If anyone out there knows more, fill us in!

John C.

« Last Edit: February 25, 2019, 11:05:03 AM by jdcolombo »

skytop35

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Re: New LokSound V.5 replaces Select, old V.4
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2019, 10:14:28 AM »
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1.  What happens to the current Select Direct micro board-style decoders.  The interview did not say anything specific about the board-style decoders, but I do not see them listed on the SBS4DCC web site any longer.  Given that ESU has OEM deals with IM and Atlas that use these board-style decoders, my suspicion is that they will be updated to V5 hardware with the same physical layout.  But Matt did not confirm this in his interview with Bryan.

The Select Direct Micro boards are still listed in the 2019 ESU Product Catalog with no change.
Bill Denton

Skytopmodels.com

jdcolombo

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Re: New LokSound V.5 replaces Select, old V.4
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2019, 11:01:09 AM »
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Thanks for that info, Bill.

And indeed, I did find the boards still listed on Bryan's web site (and he apparently has plenty of inventory of those, listing 48 pieces of the 73199 in stock):

https://store.sbs4dcc.com/search.aspx?find=ESU+Loksound+Micro

So apparently the 73199 and 73100 will live on for now - though I still suspect that at some point ESU is going to update the hardware on those boards to V.5, since they seem to want to move to a "single inventory" model (e.g., there is only one line of sound decoders: the V.5).  But apparently this isn't going to happen any time soon.

John C.

« Last Edit: February 25, 2019, 11:04:03 AM by jdcolombo »

babbo_enzo

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Re: New LokSound V.5 replaces Select, old V.4
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2019, 11:16:21 AM »
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ESU web site (http://www.esu.eu/en/products/loksound/loksound-5-micro/ ) mention: "a footprint of 21mm x 10 mm"
And.. I can't remember where, but I've read the Select micro use some "nearly obsolete" components that are hard-to-find.

rodsup9000

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Re: New LokSound V.5 replaces Select, old V.4
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2019, 11:21:17 AM »
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 Here is what I found in the interview with Matt


Can you explain what happens with the Select product line?
 
 The LokSound Select is getting discontinued. It will still be supported but the reason of the change is partly because of an end of life component issue. It is getting harder and harder to find the components needed to produce the Selects and V4.0s. They are 10 years old in 2019... The V5 DCC has some of the best parts of the Selects combined with the programmability of the V4.0s plus some new and exciting features. We've priced this at the Select price though so it really is the best the both worlds.
 
Rodney

My Feather River Canyon in N-scale
http://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=31585.0

Steveruger45

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Re: New LokSound V.5 replaces Select, old V.4
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2019, 07:14:23 PM »
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Thanks for that info, Bill.

And indeed, I did find the boards still listed on Bryan's web site (and he apparently has plenty of inventory of those, listing 48 pieces of the 73199 in stock):

https://store.sbs4dcc.com/search.aspx?find=ESU+Loksound+Micro

So apparently the 73199 and 73100 will live on for now - though I still suspect that at some point ESU is going to update the hardware on those boards to V.5, since they seem to want to move to a "single inventory" model (e.g., there is only one line of sound decoders: the V.5).  But apparently this isn't going to happen any time soon.

John C.

Maybe rather than update the 73199/73100 decoders to v5 I’m  thinking the future of OEM n scale sound with ESU will be of the Scaletrains style dc board with next 18 socket.
That won’t be as good for those of us converting older locos so I really do hope they keep the 73199/73100 design.
Steve
Atascocita, Texas

jdcolombo

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Re: New LokSound V.5 replaces Select, old V.4
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2019, 09:39:20 PM »
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Maybe rather than update the 73199/73100 decoders to v5 I’m  thinking the future of OEM n scale sound with ESU will be of the Scaletrains style dc board with next 18 socket.
That won’t be as good for those of us converting older locos so I really do hope they keep the 73199/73100 design.

Hi Steve.

Yep, you may be right about this.  It wouldn't be that hard for ESU to design a board with the physical dimensions of a current 73100/73199 and slap a Next18 connector on it, as long as there is enough room to accommodate the thickness of the board and the plug-in decoder.  That would actually make a lot more sense from ESU's perspective than redesigning the boards with V5 hardware.

John C.

daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: New LokSound V.5 replaces Select, old V.4
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2019, 11:14:34 PM »
+1
They had better have a replacement for the 73100 if they are going to discontinue it. I have far too many engines to modify and I'm NOT willing to go to a wired board or make major surgery to frames just to get sound.

Looks like I'll need to stock up.
'In my great and unmatched wisdom'

Steveruger45

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Re: New LokSound V.5 replaces Select, old V.4
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2019, 05:55:21 AM »
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Hi Steve.

Yep, you may be right about this.  It wouldn't be that hard for ESU to design a board with the physical dimensions of a current 73100/73199 and slap a Next18 connector on it, as long as there is enough room to accommodate the thickness of the board and the plug-in decoder.  That would actually make a lot more sense from ESU's perspective than redesigning the boards with V5 hardware.

John C.

Hi John and Daniel.
Yes.
That 73100 footprint is handy.   On the other hand this new v5 loksound micro being only 21mm long would open up the opportunity to install the decoder right above the motor and fit it between the motor cradle tabs. Assuming enough height and width. We need to find out if it is 10.6 or 10mm wide. 
It would mean  a bit of filing above the motor and a wired install but would leave a lot of space aft for a speaker, caps etc could go fwd and I would think that some homemade pcb resistor / component boards would be needed as well unless the V5 has onboard resistors for the functions.

Most of my 73100 installs involved some hard wiring to date anyways, but the above idea would not work on all locos I’m guessing.
The drawback with the scale trains way is you are pretty much forced to putting a speaker in the tank as the plug in V5 takes all the rear space above the frame.
I’m sure the inventive minds on TRW will figure it out once these things hit the streets
« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 06:04:05 AM by Steveruger45 »
Steve
Atascocita, Texas

RBrodzinsky

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Re: New LokSound V.5 replaces Select, old V.4
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2019, 10:46:22 AM »
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The other "problem" with the Next18 method is the orientation.  The connector on the decoder is perpendicular to the rails, so the decoder would be hanging out over the side of the frame in one direction if trying to attach on a 73100-like board! We are still going to need a long-skinny board design for the narrow hoods in n-scale.

I wonder if the end-of-life components are also on the new 73100/199 boards?  Since they are relatively new, could they have already incorporated the replacements?  One reason why these boards are not being withdrawn, as well.
Rick Brodzinsky
Chief Engineer - JACALAR Railroad
Silicon Valley FreeMo-N

jdcolombo

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Re: New LokSound V.5 replaces Select, old V.4
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2019, 11:00:30 AM »
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We are still going to need a long-skinny board design for the narrow hoods in n-scale.


Well, maybe not.  If the wired V5 decoder is really only 10mm wide by 21mm long, it will be pretty easy to do a hard-wire install in almost any hood diesel.  The downside is that you would not have pre-wired LEDs for lighting, but using the LEDs on the boards for lighting sometimes doesn't work all that well (if the board is too far away from the front of the shell, for example).  The front headlight on my Atlas SD35, which uses one of the boards, is pretty weak, IMHO. And the wired decoders permit a much easier addition of keep alive than the boards do.

Of course, for factory installations, yes, some sort of board-style decoder is probably necessary.  You can't be doing hard-wired custom sound installs in a factory assembly setting (well, unless you are Kobo Shops . . . )  But for after-market installations, a 10mm x 21mm wired decoder would give you lots of room for a speaker, caps, and proper orientation of lighting LEDs, including ditch lights that the boards don't necessarily provide, at the cost of more wiring complication.  I'd rather have the flexibility of the hard-wire decoder, but YMMV.

John C.

RBrodzinsky

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Re: New LokSound V.5 replaces Select, old V.4
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2019, 12:27:05 PM »
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But, based on the German manual, I believe the true board dimension is the 10.6mm wide.   Anyone with a ScaleTrains 39-8 want to measure it (since we know it is a V5)?  Then we will know for certain.
Rick Brodzinsky
Chief Engineer - JACALAR Railroad
Silicon Valley FreeMo-N

Jbub

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Re: New LokSound V.5 replaces Select, old V.4
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2019, 01:26:15 PM »
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But, based on the German manual, I believe the true board dimension is the 10.6mm wide.   Anyone with a ScaleTrains 39-8 want to measure it (since we know it is a V5)?  Then we will know for certain.
Are we sure it's a v5? When I measured mine it was 10.3
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Steveruger45

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Re: New LokSound V.5 replaces Select, old V.4
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2019, 01:36:14 PM »
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But, based on the German manual, I believe the true board dimension is the 10.6mm wide.   Anyone with a ScaleTrains 39-8 want to measure it (since we know it is a V5)?  Then we will know for certain.

Are we sure the factory loksound ST C39-8 has a V 5 decoder in it already?   

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0642/8107/products/ESU_73198.png?v=1532465694

The above link suggests it is a proprietary select micro No.73198.

Haven’t seen this decoder mentioned anywhere else.

I’m not sure what it is so that’s why I got the dc one to work my own sound install later when I can get a for sure V5 plus I want to do something better with the speaker install in it than what the factory has.

Would be good to know one way or the other.
Steve
Atascocita, Texas

Steveruger45

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Re: New LokSound V.5 replaces Select, old V.4
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2019, 01:42:44 PM »
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Are we sure it's a v5? When I measured mine it was 10.3

Hi there,
You just pipped me at the post.  But based on the link I uploaded in my previous post does that 73198 decoder look like yours in your C39-8?
That might help clarify it.
Thanks
Steve
Atascocita, Texas