Author Topic: ESU Select Drive Hold  (Read 699 times)

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MoGrandpa

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ESU Select Drive Hold
« on: February 01, 2019, 11:26:09 AM »
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I have the esu select L decoder programmed and the drive hold on F6. Since I’m new with esu decoders, after the engine starts up you then hit the F6 key before starting any movement? Then after you get the engine to whatever step you want you toggle the F6 key on and off for a heavy load start, would this be correct? Thank you
William Dunning
Kahoka Missouri

EL3632

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Re: ESU Select Drive Hold
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2019, 01:50:38 PM »
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No, drive hold essentially locks your speed in place where it is and allows the throttle to control how the loco's prime mover sounds. For example, at speed step 10, press F6 and go up to 60, the loco will sound like it is working very hard, but going very slow. When you disable drive hold, your loco will go to whatever throttle speed you have on your throttle, so if you went to 99 from 15, your loco will increase speed dramatically.

jdcolombo

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Re: ESU Select Drive Hold
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2019, 05:48:40 PM »
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I have the esu select L decoder programmed and the drive hold on F6. Since I’m new with esu decoders, after the engine starts up you then hit the F6 key before starting any movement? Then after you get the engine to whatever step you want you toggle the F6 key on and off for a heavy load start, would this be correct? Thank you
William Dunning
Kahoka Missouri

I think you understand the process, but haven't described it well.  If you want to use Drive Hold to simulate a "heavy start," then do the following.  First, make sure the momentum settings are turned up significantly; ESU sets them at 80 by default; I use 120.  You want them high enough to give you a slow acceleration from stop.  You also want to make sure that you've set the maximum speed (CV5) to something realistic.  In N scale, our locos tend to top out at 250 smph if you don't adjust CV5.  I set CV5 so that my freight engines won't go faster than 70 smph at full throttle.   

OK, now train is in the yard, ready to leave.  Press F6 to engage DH, then use your throttle to increase the throttle setting to whatever notch you want.  The engines will throttle up, but aren't going to move because DH is engaged.  Now release F6, and the engines will start to accelerate to whatever the throttle is set at - the speed of the acceleration will depend on the momentum setting (CV3 for acceleration; CV4 for braking).  If your train is accelerating too fast, you can engage F6 again to "lock" the speed and then release to let it accelerate a bit, then engage, release, as needed to get the right effect.  Or increase the momentum setting in CV3.

Another way to do this is to use Run8 (which you will have to map to a function key).  You can engage Run8, and the engine(s)' sound will throttle up to notch 8; you control speed with the throttle knob in this scenario, so you can accelerate the train as slowly as you like using your throttle knob.  I've never seen a departing train throttle up all the way to Run8 before moving here in flatland Illinois, but I'm told it happens in the mountains.

John C.

MoGrandpa

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Re: ESU Select Drive Hold
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2019, 04:21:10 PM »
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Thank you John for the information, I have one locomotive set up to run 50 mph top speed with CV5 and will use this speed table as a template. As for CV3 and 4 I will get them programmed to a number above 100. I have never run momentum on locomotives, so I’m guessing that the train will go down the track a lot farther when turning the handheld to 0. Another new learning curve, and will get back as soon as I get the programming done.

William

Billg

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Re: ESU Select Drive Hold
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2019, 11:55:55 PM »
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Another way to do this is to use Run8 (which you will have to map to a function key).  You can engage Run8, and the engine(s)' sound will throttle up to notch 8; you control speed with the throttle knob in this scenario, so you can accelerate the train as slowly as you like using your throttle knob.  I've never seen a departing train throttle up all the way to Run8 before moving here in flatland Illinois, but I'm told it happens in the mountains.

John C.

I don't think you would ever put an engine in 8 to start a train.  You would most likely yank a lung if you did.  Most of the guys today just put the engine in 2 or 3 and let the computers take over.  With the size of the consists that leave Proviso and G1, you don't need much throttle....At least that's how they used to do it when I was there...
Bill W.

peteski

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Re: ESU Select Drive Hold
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2019, 01:10:32 AM »
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I don't think you would ever put an engine in 8 to start a train.  You would most likely yank a lung if you did.  Most of the guys today just put the engine in 2 or 3 and let the computers take over.  With the size of the consists that leave Proviso and G1, you don't need much throttle....At least that's how they used to do it when I was there...

Sure, that makes sense for contemporary diesels, but how did they start heavy trains back in the diesel transition era, or even in the '60s or '70s?
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Billg

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Re: ESU Select Drive Hold
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2019, 11:24:41 AM »
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Sure, that makes sense for contemporary diesels, but how did they start heavy trains back in the diesel transition era, or even in the '60s or '70s?

NEVER in run8!  When I was running we didn't have GEVO's or 70M's or 90MAC's.  We had 3 or 4 GEEPS and maybe a covered wagon thrown in all MU'd.  You'd have one eye on the ground and the other on your AMP gauge!  It took skill to start a train back then.  For example:  Open throttle to notch 3 or 4 and keep a close eye on the AMP meter!  Pick a spot on the ground out your window to check for ANY movement.  Back to the gauge! You watch it build 600, 700, 800 even 900 AMPS on some GP's with fresh cut wheels (remember you're only in run 4).  The gauge needle starts to "shudder".  QUICK check the ground!  Back to the needle.  Back off a notch on the throttle and the needle drops to 600 AMPS and is steady.  Start throttling up again one notch at a time never letting the AMPS fall otherwise you'd have to start all over again.  While all this is going on you're constantly checking for movement.  Oh, I forgot.  You have a guy in the caboose who you're not trying to knock down!

That's the best I can describe it.  I guess you'd have to be there to really experience it......
Bill W.

davefoxx

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Re: ESU Select Drive Hold
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2019, 11:31:04 AM »
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NEVER in run8!  When I was running we didn't have GEVO's or 70M's or 90MAC's.  We had 3 or 4 GEEPS and maybe a covered wagon thrown in all MU'd.  You'd have one eye on the ground and the other on your AMP gauge!  It took skill to start a train back then.  For example:  Open throttle to notch 3 or 4 and keep a close eye on the AMP meter!  Pick a spot on the ground out your window to check for ANY movement.  Back to the gauge! You watch it build 600, 700, 800 even 900 AMPS on some GP's with fresh cut wheels (remember you're only in run 4).  The gauge needle starts to "shudder".  QUICK check the ground!  Back to the needle.  Back off a notch on the throttle and the needle drops to 600 AMPS and is steady.  Start throttling up again one notch at a time never letting the AMPS fall otherwise you'd have to start all over again.  While all this is going on you're constantly checking for movement.  Oh, I forgot.  You have a guy in the caboose who you're not trying to knock down!

That's the best I can describe it.  I guess you'd have to be there to really experience it......

Posts like this are sooooooooo helpful to those of us who don't have this experience.  I just learned how to use the sound on my locomotives just a little more prototypically.  :)

Thank you,
DFF

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Member: ACL/SAL Historical Society
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jdcolombo

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Re: ESU Select Drive Hold
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2019, 11:55:30 AM »
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OK.  Given the experiences of real train engineers . . .

DON'T USE RUN 8 on a LokSound to simulate a heavy train start!  :facepalm:

Instead, use the procedure I outlined - engage Drive Hold with engines at idle; throttle up to notch 3, then release Drive Hold and if you have enough momentum set, the engines will slowly accelerate to the throttle setting.  After that, you just control the engines with the throttle normally.

John C.

Billg

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Re: ESU Select Drive Hold
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2019, 02:01:37 PM »
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OK.  Given the experiences of real train engineers . . .

DON'T USE RUN 8 on a LokSound to simulate a heavy train start!  :facepalm:

Instead, use the procedure I outlined - engage Drive Hold with engines at idle; throttle up to notch 3, then release Drive Hold and if you have enough momentum set, the engines will slowly accelerate to the throttle setting.  After that, you just control the engines with the throttle normally.

John C.

THAT'S IT John!  Thanks!

It's really fun for me to simulate on my layout what I used to do for a living for so many years!  When LokSound brought out "FULL THROTTLE" and the Drive-Hold feature, I began to convert my fleet to sound!  I could run 'em for hours!

BTW, could someone give me a recommendation on a steam engine?  An Atlantic to be more accurate.  I'm looking for a locomotive to pull old time passenger cars.

Any suggestions??
Bill W.

peteski

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Re: ESU Select Drive Hold
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2019, 03:47:32 PM »
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Thanks for your input on the Run8 feature John!  As others said, it is great to hear from someone (an engineer) who actually ran the "real" trains.

So this Run8 was likely developed by someone who only thought they knew how the real locomotives operate.  That is too bad, because they could have made that feature work more realistically.  But then again, many model railroaders wont know or care that it doesn't realistically represent the real operations - it does sound cool when used, and it adds some drama to operating model trains.
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davefoxx

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Re: ESU Select Drive Hold
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2019, 04:01:36 PM »
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Thanks for your input on the Run8 feature John!  As others said, it is great to hear from someone (an engineer) who actually ran the "real" trains.

So this Run8 was likely developed by someone who only thought they knew how the real locomotives operate.  That is too bad, because they could have made that feature work more realistically.  But then again, many model railroaders wont know or care that it doesn't realistically represent the real operations - it does sound cool when used, and it adds some drama to operating model trains.

Heh, I love putting a locomotive into Run8 and grinding up my 4% grade, moving at about 5 mph.  Bringin' 'em on down on their knees!  Traction motors be damned; the sound effect is awesome!  :D

DFF

General Counsel to the Laurel Valley Ry.
Member: ACL/SAL Historical Society
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peteski

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Re: ESU Select Drive Hold
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2019, 04:05:17 PM »
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Heh, I love putting a locomotive into Run8 and grinding up my 4% grade, moving at about 5 mph.  Bringin' 'em on down on their knees!  Traction motors be damned; the sound effect is awesome!  :D

DFF

And we already have a first (of many) examples of a model railroader just enjoying the unrealistic, but cool-sounding feature.  :D
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davefoxx

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Re: ESU Select Drive Hold
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2019, 05:27:13 PM »
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And we already have a first (of many) examples of a model railroader just enjoying the unrealistic, but cool-sounding feature.  :D

Run8 is not an "unrealistic" feature.  It just has to be used properly.

/>
DFF

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Member: ACL/SAL Historical Society
A Proud HOer

peteski

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Re: ESU Select Drive Hold
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2019, 05:35:28 PM »
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Run8 is not an "unrealistic" feature.  It just has to be used properly.

Ok, unrealistic for starting trains.
--- Peteski de Snarkski
--- Honorary Resident Curmudgeon