Author Topic: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?  (Read 4311 times)

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mike_lawyer

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2019, 03:27:55 PM »
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Important correction to something I said earlier.  Not every Faulhaber 1016 motor with a gearhead on eBay will be suitable for just unscrewing the gearhead and putting on a 4:1.   There are two 1016's on there right now.  One has a 10/1 1024:1 gearhead, the other has a 15/5 141:1 gearhead.   BEWARE.

The slash/ nomenclature indicates the pinion gear type. 

So... a standard 4:1 gearhead from Faulhaber is a 10/1.  If you get a motor that is set up for 15/5, the 10/1 gearhead will NOT mesh with it.  It will physically screw on... I THINK... but the gears won't mesh.  You need to make sure you buy 10/1 motors.

Now... as for these "cheap" 8mm Faulhabers...
look for "Faulhaber 8mm"
They often have encoders on the back end of them, but those can be pried off pretty easily.
But remember... you still have the problem of getting the right pinion on these before you can put on a gearhead.

Max -

I previously bought one of the 1016s with the 15/5 gearhead on it just for kicks, and I cannot get the motor to unscrew from the gearhead.  I don't know exactly how the two are connected.  It is still a mystery that I have not solved.

Mike

peteski

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2019, 04:26:45 PM »
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Thats why I purchased a few. I want to toss them into an Atlas chassis and see if there is a difference.

The will work just fine (especially the gray version).  They  are the 12V N scale motors used in model locos. I'm questioning the RPM and voltage ratings specs in those listings.  I bought bunch of them and they are the "real thing".

I also started experimenting with tiny 6-pole motors. Unfortunately they seem to be designed for operating at around 5V (the seller states 7-9V), but they are almost as smooth and as quiet as coreless motors. And they have lots of torque! And the price is hard to beat.  They are amazing!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-6V-9V-14700RPM-Minebea-6-pole-Rotor-Large-Torque-10-10mm-Square-Mini-DC-Motor/122242694971

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daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2019, 07:40:34 PM »
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Important correction to something I said earlier.  Not every Faulhaber 1016 motor with a gearhead on eBay will be suitable for just unscrewing the gearhead and putting on a 4:1.   There are two 1016's on there right now.  One has a 10/1 1024:1 gearhead, the other has a 15/5 141:1 gearhead.   BEWARE.

The slash/ nomenclature indicates the pinion gear type. 

So... a standard 4:1 gearhead from Faulhaber is a 10/1.  If you get a motor that is set up for 15/5, the 10/1 gearhead will NOT mesh with it.  It will physically screw on... I THINK... but the gears won't mesh.  You need to make sure you buy 10/1 motors.

Now... as for these "cheap" 8mm Faulhabers...
look for "Faulhaber 8mm"
They often have encoders on the back end of them, but those can be pried off pretty easily.
But remember... you still have the problem of getting the right pinion on these before you can put on a gearhead.

Max, these are all 3-4v right? I wonder if the encoder could be used in some way to sync steam chuffs on a sound decoder.
'In my great and unmatched wisdom'

peteski

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2019, 08:54:52 PM »
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Max, these are all 3-4v right? I wonder if the encoder could be used in some way to sync steam chuffs on a sound decoder.

The only chuff sync input to in a sound decoder is one which senses driver's rotation. Even if the motor mounted encoder generated a single pulse/revolution it would still be too many pulses to properly synch the chuffs. And most motro encoders either fenerate many pulse/rev, or generate voltage proportional to the motor's speed.

But the current line of quality sound decoders does really good job syncing chuffs from the motor's BEMF.  No need for a chuff cam.
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mmagliaro

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2019, 09:51:13 PM »
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Max -

I previously bought one of the 1016s with the 15/5 gearhead on it just for kicks, and I cannot get the motor to unscrew from the gearhead.  I don't know exactly how the two are connected.  It is still a mystery that I have not solved.

Mike

I never had a 15/5 myself.  But... I HAVE had some conventional 10/1 gearheads that were so tight that I had to grab the motor in vise grips, and the gearhead in another set of vise grips, clamp them down TIGHT, and then turn, in order to get the darn thing to unscrew.  I was praying that I wouldn't just crush the motor case while doing this!   I tried to clamp onto it over the end, where there is maximum support, not in the center, where the only thing there is the thin metal case.

So maybe that's your own problem... that it's super tight.

I looked at the online data sheet for the 15/5, but it does not say or show how it attaches to a motor.

And realize, the 15/5 series are spur gears, not planetaries.  I think they tend to be a little noisier, but you can get a lot of other gear ratios besides just the "multiple of 4" that you get with the planetaries.

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2019, 10:25:43 PM »
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Some gearheads are glued to the motor (epoxy?), so it is very difficult to remove them.
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mmagliaro

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2019, 11:37:16 PM »
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Some gearheads are glued to the motor (epoxy?), so it is very difficult to remove them.

I guess that's possible.  If you can't use the 15/5 motor anyway, it would be worth experimenting.
Maybe just hit it with some heat, like from a mini butane torch or one of those small pipe soldering "Benz-o-matic" torches right where the joint is between the motor and gearhead for a few seconds, and then see if two vise grips will let you unscrew it.  Some Faulhabers have plastic on the ends, so you can't use heat if it's like that.  But some are all metal and can probably stand being hit with a flame for a few seconds.

woodone

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2019, 08:44:57 AM »
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Max, is it possible for you to provide a motor/gear head break down of the motors/gear heads that you have information on.
Could go into a sticker file for others to use?
For me the N scale motors are a real puzzle.
Right now HO motors seem to my biggest problem finding good motors at a reasonable cost. $40.00 to $60.00 is not bad but I have seem some motors costing into $100.00 and up.

mmagliaro

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2019, 10:59:52 AM »
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Max, is it possible for you to provide a motor/gear head break down of the motors/gear heads that you have information on.
Could go into a sticker file for others to use?
For me the N scale motors are a real puzzle.
Right now HO motors seem to my biggest problem finding good motors at a reasonable cost. $40.00 to $60.00 is not bad but I have seem some motors costing into $100.00 and up.

I'm not sure exactly what you want.  But here's an off-the-top-of-my-head list.

Faulhaber:
0816  8mm diameter 16mm length, comes in 3, 6, and 12v.  3v are the most common available as surplus.  I drive them to 5v.
08/01 gearheads available in 4:1, 16:1, and higher ratios.  Not ever 0816 motor you find on eBay will have the correct pinion
to mate with the gearhead.  But as I indicated, if you get another 8mm gearhead, you can take it apart and use one of the planetaries as a pinion and it will work.

1016 10mm 16mm length, 3, 6, 9, 12v and more.  I usually use 6v and drive it to 10v.
10/1 gearheads, 4:1, 16:1 and higher.  Same rules as for the 8mm as far as having the correct pinion

There are many other sizes, but these are the two I always use for Faulhaber.
The 08/01 gearhead will fit the 10mm motors also.  That's sometimes handy if you need the front part of the motor to be more slimmed down for fitting into a steam loco boiler.

I have never found a Faulhaber with a 1.5mm output shaft for mounting a worm directly on the motor.  SOME of the gearheads have a 1.5mm shaft, but not many.   Eldon used to specialize in finding and delivering the ones with the correct shaft, which was a nice plus.  If you get the more common 0.8mm or 1.0mm shaft, you will have to find sleeving to get it up to the correct size for a typical motor worm.   Faulhaber gearheads often have a 2mm or large output shaft.  You can either bore out your worm,
or run the motor/gearhead against a diamond Dremel tool to grind it down to 1.5mm.  I have successfully done this, just holding it in my hands, and the shaft was still true enough to mount a worm and work in an engine.


Maxon:
RE series.  RE10 is 10mm
I have used the 17 and 24mm lengths (1017 and 1024 is how they designate them)
Voltages 3, 6, 8, 12, and others.  Like Faulhaber, these can be driven well above their nominal voltage when you use a gearhead.
4:1, 16:1, and higher multiples of 4 for gearheads.   The 1017 is a little on the weak side for a coreless, unless you use
a gearhead.  The 1024 is really powerful.  With a gearhead, it's unstoppable. 

These are available with 1.5mm output shafts, so you can mount a worm on them directly.

RE13 is 13mm.  I have used the 1320 (13mm diam 20mm length) in the Trix K4, all by itself.  If you can find them with
a 1.5mm output shaft (they come in a ton of different configurations, so you need to see a photo of the motor)
You can mount a worm directly on the motor.

The 1320 is a BEAST for power.  Maximum power rating is 1.5 watts which is about double what a comparable Mashima can do (and 0.75 watt is still a LOT of power)
They have 4:1, 16:1 and other gearheads for these as well.


That's about all I can think of for now.

woodone

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2019, 02:03:10 PM »
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Thanks Max.
That is a great help.
I am sure others will appreciate the information too.
Thanks again!  :D

Bill H

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2019, 03:08:32 PM »
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Bill H

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2019, 03:10:14 PM »
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How about Micromo? I have never dealt with them, just found this...

Here is a 1016 with gearhead. https://www.micromo.com/1016m012g-10-1-64-1-mg09.html

mmagliaro

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2019, 05:28:28 PM »
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How about Micromo? I have never dealt with them, just found this...

Here is a 1016 with gearhead. https://www.micromo.com/1016m012g-10-1-64-1-mg09.html

Micromo is just a major USA reseller of Faulhaber.  Those are the same motors.
And you'll notice... buying that thing direct will cost you $180+ !!! 
That's why we have to scour the Earth for surplus sales on these.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 05:33:26 PM by mmagliaro »

mmagliaro

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2019, 06:02:04 PM »
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And as if all this isn't enough to keep straight...

Both Faulhaber and Maxon introduced upgraded versions of all these motors that use Neodymium magnets.  Maxon did it first and their motors leapt way out ahead of Faulhaber in output power for a while, but Faulhaber has long since caught up.
The difference is anywhere from a 2x to 3x increase in motor torque.  So as powerful as these puppies are, the Neodymium versions must be positively astounding.

Maxon has been making them this way for a long time, so any that you buy will have them.  For Faulhaber, you need to look for the "SR" series motors (as in 1016SR, 0816SR, and so on, as opposed to 1016G or 0816P or 0816S)  Personally, I have never been lucky enough to score any of the "SR" series, and none of the ones on eBay are SR.

Imagine replacing a stock motor with one of these, getting anywhere from a 2x to 4x jump in torque just from that, then slapping on a 4:1 gearhead.  Even conservatively, you now have 8x the torque you got from, say, an Atlas or Kato motor.  Now imagine finding an "SR" version, so you have 16x (or more!) torque of the original motor.

------
Ever heard the term "drunk with power"?   Well, this is it.  Caution.  These gearheaded motors are powerful enough to tear your engine drivetrain to pieces if something jams.  If it derails or something otherwise gets "stuck" in the rods or the wheels, but there is still power to the motor, that thing is NOT going to stop.  It will rip the teeth off a plastic gear.  I learned this the hard way with my 0-6-0.  I had to replace the drive axle a couple of times during development, when I would have a mechanism jam and the motor would just keep right on turning.

mmagliaro

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2019, 07:09:49 PM »
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I'm going to ask the moderators to lock this one and put in a reference link to the other one.