Author Topic: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?  (Read 4309 times)

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MK

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2019, 11:54:08 AM »
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It's possible because most, if not all, postage is subsidized by the Chinese Government.  That's why you see so many Free Shipping on eBay and other outfits.

mmagliaro

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2019, 01:21:09 PM »
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It's possible because most, if not all, postage is subsidized by the Chinese Government.  That's why you see so many Free Shipping on eBay and other outfits.

Well, sort of.  There is also the "postal illuminati"... the Universal Postal Union (UPU).    When a piece of mail is shipped internationally, and it arrives in the destination country, that country's postal service delivers it, but is not fully reimbursed for the cost of making that local delivery.   For example, somebody ships you a motor from China.  They pay the China postal system.  When it gets here, the USPS delivers it the rest of the way to you for FAR LESS than it would cost if somebody within the US mailed it.  This is because of the agreement that the US has with the UPU.

So yes, part of the reason stuff can ship so cheaply from China may be that the Chinese Gov't subsidizes mail delivery to the US, but another part is that the US postal service is *also* subsidizing the cost of delivering mail that came here from China.


This podcast has a pretty enlightening explanation of the system, if you can stand to listen to all 30 minutes of it:

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/08/01/634737852/episode-857-the-postal-illuminati?t=1535835077416&t=1535976490298


In October, President Trump announced that the US is withdrawing from the UPU, because of this shipping subsidization, which essentially gives a big shipping advantage to China shippers over local US shippers.
The UPU rules say that a nation must give a one year notice before the withdrawal takes effect.  So it won't happen until Oct, 2019.  If he goes through with it, you can expect the shipping costs from China to the US for these small items to go up.  It won't be so "free" anymore.  But that's probably a good and fair thing, I think.  There's no way it is fair or makes sense that something can be mailed here from China for almost nothing when it cost several dollars to mail the same item domestically.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 01:27:41 PM by mmagliaro »

nickelplate759

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2019, 04:26:36 PM »
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Max - so that's how it works!  More than once I've marveled that I could buy something through eBay or Amazon, with free shipping from  overseas (usually but not always China), for less than the cost of postage alone!  Like a $4 box of plastic pipettes shipped from China.  Crazy!
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 11:44:35 PM by nickelplate759 »
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cbroughton67

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2019, 07:31:02 PM »
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I did some looking on eBay and on the internet without luck - trying to find some Maxon or similar 10mm diameter coreless motors for repowering old steam locos. The last one I have I bought from the Motor Man, who I understand passed away recently. Any suggestions? Or, any good, affordable, and available alternatives to Maxon / Faulhaber, etc?


Chris

merged from another thread -gfh
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 02:09:57 PM by GaryHinshaw »
Chris Broughton

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Chris333

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2019, 09:02:43 PM »
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There are 2 Faulhaber 1016 motors on ebay. They have gearheads, but those just unscrew (and maybe you could sell those to Max  ;)  )

Microtrains puts Maxon 8mm double shaft motors in their Z scale locos. They might sell them. I found a guy who had broke one shaft off of 3 and sold them to me. The shafts are ceramic.

Kato and Bachmann both make 7mm (I think) coreless motors now.

mike_lawyer

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2019, 10:45:10 PM »
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I have some spare Maxon motors in my parts box....I can check the size and let you know.

mmagliaro

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2019, 11:06:57 PM »
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Yes, that's how it works.  The US taxpayer is subsidizing shipments from China.

With regards to Chris Broughton's question (from another thread, which I am steadfastly trying to merge into this one)...

Getting the 10mm motor is not easy, but is not the hard part. . Getting a 4:1 gearhead is the hard part.  That's the "gem" that makes these motors perfect for model train applications.

These days, there seems to be an ongoing dump of 8mm Faulhabers on eBay at firesale prices.  They are only the 3v versions, so you have to play tricks with zeners, diodes, or resistors (or if you are DCC, just set the max voltage and the steps)   to only use about 5v at the top end.   Remember, these motors can run at significantly higher than their stated "nominal" voltage, so 5v is fine for a 3v motor.  I prefer to use them that way, because it give you a much wider speed range from the motor, and that lets you put in a gear reduction and still get a decent top speed from the engine.

In the 10mm size, I have always used the 6v version and run them at a maximum of about 10v.  A small dropping resistor works well in this application because with a 4:1 gearhead, the motor current draw does not vary all that much and the resistor does a pretty good job of limiting the voltage regardless of train length, hills, or other load variations.

I don't know what we're going to do.  But as I said, the tough part is the 4:1 gearhead.


daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2019, 01:46:54 AM »
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I put an order in for several motors. I believe the black motor is either OEM or a copy of Atlas old high speed motor... Listing 36000rpm at 12v there is also a gray motor listing 42000rpm at 24v. I believe this is the same as the Atlas slow speed motor. The gray motor even has the bronze motor tabs that contact Atlas DCC boards. There is also a single shaft 24000rpm motor that might work for steam repowering projects.

Some of these sellers also list gears.  And that had me thinking... Companies like Briggs might be able to sell an entire kit without needing a donor loco, reducing costs considerably.
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peteski

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2019, 03:51:07 AM »
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I put an order in for several motors. I believe the black motor is either OEM or a copy of Atlas old high speed motor... Listing 36000rpm at 12v there is also a gray motor listing 42000rpm at 24v. I believe this is the same as the Atlas slow speed motor. The gray motor even has the bronze motor tabs that contact Atlas DCC boards. There is also a single shaft 24000rpm motor that might work for steam repowering projects.


Like with many things sold on eBay from China those technical specs are very likely wildly inaccurate.
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daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2019, 07:48:54 AM »
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Like with many things sold on eBay from China those technical specs are very likely wildly inaccurate.

Thats why I purchased a few. I want to toss them into an Atlas chassis and see if there is a difference.
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mike_lawyer

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2019, 08:53:53 AM »
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Yes, that's how it works.  The US taxpayer is subsidizing shipments from China.

With regards to Chris Broughton's question (from another thread, which I am steadfastly trying to merge into this one)...

Getting the 10mm motor is not easy, but is not the hard part. . Getting a 4:1 gearhead is the hard part.  That's the "gem" that makes these motors perfect for model train applications.

These days, there seems to be an ongoing dump of 8mm Faulhabers on eBay at firesale prices.  They are only the 3v versions, so you have to play tricks with zeners, diodes, or resistors (or if you are DCC, just set the max voltage and the steps)   to only use about 5v at the top end.   Remember, these motors can run at significantly higher than their stated "nominal" voltage, so 5v is fine for a 3v motor.  I prefer to use them that way, because it give you a much wider speed range from the motor, and that lets you put in a gear reduction and still get a decent top speed from the engine.

In the 10mm size, I have always used the 6v version and run them at a maximum of about 10v.  A small dropping resistor works well in this application because with a 4:1 gearhead, the motor current draw does not vary all that much and the resistor does a pretty good job of limiting the voltage regardless of train length, hills, or other load variations.

I don't know what we're going to do.  But as I said, the tough part is the 4:1 gearhead.

Max -

This German store has at least decent prices on gearheads.  You can buy Faulhaber 10/1 planetary gearheads with a 4:1 ratio for about 39 euros, plus shipping.  That price includes VAT tax, which might not be applicable for sales to the US.  Here is the link:

https://www.glockenankermotor.com/index.php/cat/c44_10-1-Faulhaber.html

Not as cheap as Eldon's prices, but at least you could source the Faulhaber 1016s fairly cheap and then buy the gearheads separately and assemble your own.

Mike


mmagliaro

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2019, 12:41:48 PM »
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I guess that depends on what you consider "decent" prices.   :D

I know about that German store.  39 Euros is  $44, just for the gearhead.  Then you have to get the motor.
For the 8mm size, the gearhead is 48 Euros = $54.  With the current $8 8mm Faulhabers you can get on eBay, that brings the total to $62, which is pretty decent for the whole package.

For the 10mm, I haven't found anything cheaper than about $30 for the motor on eBay, so the 30+44=$74 price is getting a little high.  Still, considering the premium motor/gear package you're getting, it's not too awful.

ALSO... be very careful about the pinion gear on the motor.  If you buy a Faulhaber off eBay that already has a gearhead on it, and you are planning to just unscrew that one and screw on a 4:1 that you buy from glockenankermotor or some other source, it will almost definitely work.   But if you buy the motor from eBay with no gearhead, the pinion gear on that motor will not necessarily be the correct one to mate with the gears in the gearhead.  I know that the 8mm offerings currently on there are like that.  I had to buzz off the pinion with a diamond Dremel cutoff wheel, and then put a new pinion on.  The pinions are spot-welded to the shafts so you cannot just pry or press them off.

If you have a spare gearhead lying around and you take it apart, the internal planetaries will work as a pinion.  You can push it on the shaft with some red loctite and it will be good to go.


Max -

This German store has at least decent prices on gearheads.  You can buy Faulhaber 10/1 planetary gearheads with a 4:1 ratio for about 39 euros, plus shipping.  That price includes VAT tax, which might not be applicable for sales to the US.  Here is the link:

https://www.glockenankermotor.com/index.php/cat/c44_10-1-Faulhaber.html

Not as cheap as Eldon's prices, but at least you could source the Faulhaber 1016s fairly cheap and then buy the gearheads separately and assemble your own.

Mike

daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2019, 01:39:52 PM »
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Where are these cheap 8mm Faulhabers ? I haven't found any yet.
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mmagliaro

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2019, 01:55:53 PM »
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Important correction to something I said earlier.  Not every Faulhaber 1016 motor with a gearhead on eBay will be suitable for just unscrewing the gearhead and putting on a 4:1.   There are two 1016's on there right now.  One has a 10/1 1024:1 gearhead, the other has a 15/5 141:1 gearhead.   BEWARE.

The slash/ nomenclature indicates the pinion gear type. 

So... a standard 4:1 gearhead from Faulhaber is a 10/1.  If you get a motor that is set up for 15/5, the 10/1 gearhead will NOT mesh with it.  It will physically screw on... I THINK... but the gears won't mesh.  You need to make sure you buy 10/1 motors.

Now... as for these "cheap" 8mm Faulhabers...
look for "Faulhaber 8mm"
They often have encoders on the back end of them, but those can be pried off pretty easily.
But remember... you still have the problem of getting the right pinion on these before you can put on a gearhead.

mmagliaro

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Re: Where To Find Maxon Motors After Motor Man's Passing?
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2019, 02:25:28 PM »
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Thats why I purchased a few. I want to toss them into an Atlas chassis and see if there is a difference.

I bought some of the black ones and some of the gray ones.  Generally, what you suspect is correct.
I measured their RPM with an infrared RPM meter with a cardboard disk attached to the motor shaft.

The gray ones are the slow-speed ones, the black ones are the "fast" speed ones.  And they match up to existing Atlas motors I've got in my stash very closely.

I bought three of each.
The only negative thing I noted was that one of the gray ones had some whacky unstable RPM, and seemed to have more vibration and noise than it should (i.e. at 12v, it would hit around 13,000 RPM, then drop off to the high 11,000's, then go back up, etc.).  It acted like it had a bum brush or a brush spring problem.

These could just be motors that were seconds, or motors that never went through a standard QC process, where the "bad" motors would have been discarded.

But for the price?  Heck.  Hard to beat even if you have to buy 10 to get 3 perfect ones.  And my experience was much better than that.