Author Topic: Next18 connector  (Read 1714 times)

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Steveruger45

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Re: Next18 connector
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2019, 04:45:14 PM »
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Yes, that’s what I thought too.  Plus it seems to be in the region of the narrow part of the hood under the radiators.
Steve
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Smike

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Re: Next18 connector
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2019, 04:48:13 PM »
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I recently installed one in that very same loco and didn't notice any width issues. (Plug and play as they say)

jdcolombo

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Re: Next18 connector
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2019, 05:14:06 PM »
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There are narrow hoods and there are narrow hoods.  The question boils down to the interior width of the shell in the spot you want to mount the decoder.  On my Atlas GP7/9 (China) shells, there are spots on the shell where the interior width is more than 10.6mm because the shell itself is thinner at that point.  But at the rear, where I generally mount the decoder, the interior width is more like 10.3mm because the plastic is thicker there.  So part of this may just be how the shell itself is molded and how thick the plastic is at the place the decoder goes. 

And the prototype width of the hood may vary slightly, as well.  On my Fox Valley NKP 8100 GEVO, the rear of the shell where the decoder is mounted is about 10.7mm.  But according to data sheets, the hood on a GEVO is 10' 3" wide, as opposed to 10' on a GP7.  3" in N scale is roughly .5mm.  That difference would easily explain the difference between a slightly-too-narrow interior dimension and an OK interior dimension. 

My general experience has been that the wired Select Micro decoder fits fine in some things, and not fine in others (particularly Atlas first-generation hood diesels).

YMMV.

John C.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 05:18:57 PM by jdcolombo »

peteski

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Re: Next18 connector
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2019, 05:24:31 PM »
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You have that in reverse. The connector and decoder are in the rear (narrow section of the loco) The cab is on the right in that photo.
Duh!  :facepalm:  So, it can be installed in a narrow hood after all.  It is not the Next18 connector's width, but the overall decoder width that is in question here?
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daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: Next18 connector
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2019, 05:49:37 PM »
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Um, I don't think  that Bryan from SBS actually designed the decoder. He just provided some parameters (like the desired dimensions and keeping all the components on one side of the PC board), which were then used by ZIMO engineers.

I only own the Scale Trains Turbine set and that used a 21-pin connector, but it is a wide body loco, so it could easily utilize the Next18 connector. But narrow hood N scale locos?  Not so much.

How did Scale Train fit Next18 decoder in a narrow-hood diesel? Answer: They placed it in the wide nose/cab!  Cheaters!   :D


Here is an interesting review of the Next18 (and other standard connectors).  Note that it was done back in 2014 (so the standard has been around for a while)
https://www.locgeek.com/2014/07/next18-digital-interface-future-n-scale/

My understanding was that this was essentially a SBS project that they contracted to  Zimo. Isn't it an exclusive item in the US available only though SBS? I'm not sure about elsewhere.
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Steveruger45

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Re: Next18 connector
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2019, 06:07:33 PM »
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I recently installed one in that very same loco and didn't notice any width issues. (Plug and play as they say)

Assuming that was a loksound micro v4, unless you got a v5 already?.   It seems the v5 is about the same size anyway at least width wise. Interesting options then with this loco.  It is getting more and more attractive to me as I model early 90’s Sp/Up/ATSF I can justify a leased conrail unit or two or a run through NS unit, or all of those, it’s getting harder to resist and my wallet is complaining already.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 06:12:15 PM by Steveruger45 »
Steve
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peteski

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Re: Next18 connector
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2019, 06:29:00 PM »
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My understanding was that this was essentially a SBS project that they contracted to  Zimo. Isn't it an exclusive item in the US available only though SBS? I'm not sure about elsewhere.

I think that couple of years ago SBS became the US distributor of ZIMO in US, but others carry it too.
Here are couple.
http://www.dcctrain.com/shop/category.aspx?catid=28
http://www.foothillmodelworks.com/Zimo.html
https://www.trainli.com/zimo-sound-dcc-c-288

As for who designed the decoder, I still say that Bryan provided the specs and ZIMO engineers actually did the electronic design (adhering to the ZIMO's hardware and firmware architecture).  Maybe it is semantics . . .
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Jbub

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Re: Next18 connector
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2019, 06:34:40 PM »
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Assuming that was a loksound micro v4, unless you got a v5 already?.   It seems the v5 is about the same size anyway at least width wise. Interesting options then with this loco.  It is getting more and more attractive to me as I model early 90’s Sp/Up/ATSF I can justify a leased conrail unit or two or a run through NS unit, or all of those, it’s getting harder to resist and my wallet is complaining already.
The more I looked at it the more I wanted one. I model current modern so I got the PNE 8212, really surprising since I do UP and don't have a tier 4 gevo (yet).  It's a beautiful loco for sure and runs really well. I see why they put the speaker in the way they did as an assembly solution but it just doesn't produce the sound this model deserves. I'll get the measurements on the decoder and body width soon.
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Steveruger45

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Re: Next18 connector
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2019, 08:18:17 PM »
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The more I looked at it the more I wanted one. I model current modern so I got the PNE 8212, really surprising since I do UP and don't have a tier 4 gevo (yet).  It's a beautiful loco for sure and runs really well. I see why they put the speaker in the way they did as an assembly solution but it just doesn't produce the sound this model deserves. I'll get the measurements on the decoder and body width soon.

Great.  Well, I just couldn’t resist any longer and just ordered a conrail unit and a next18 lokpilot micro for it.
Wallet is making me hold off on the sound one at the moment, plus I will mostly run this as a center loco in an SP consist with sound locos front and rear.
Steve
Atascocita, Texas

Jbub

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Re: Next18 connector
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2019, 01:26:44 AM »
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So here is what I found. The Scaletrains C39 body is 11.1 mm wide inside on the rear end. The decoder is 10.36 mm wide. The Kato SD70ace is 10.3 mm wide in the back. When you get your loco and decoder I found that the shell isn't exactly friction fit, they use some tape near the motor to add a little stickiness to keep the shell in place. I'm not sure why because the couplers have to be removed to get the shell off anyway.
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peteski

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Re: Next18 connector
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2019, 03:03:47 AM »
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So here is what I found. The Scaletrains C39 body is 11.1 mm wide inside on the rear end. The decoder is 10.36 mm wide. The Kato SD70ace is 10.3 mm wide in the back. When you get your loco and decoder I found that the shell isn't exactly friction fit, they use some tape near the motor to add a little stickiness to keep the shell in place. I'm not sure why because the couplers have to be removed to get the shell off anyway.

Maybe they do that so the motor armature does not rub against the body?  Just an assumption.
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Steveruger45

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Re: Next18 connector
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2019, 09:01:03 AM »
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So here is what I found. The Scaletrains C39 body is 11.1 mm wide inside on the rear end. The decoder is 10.36 mm wide. The Kato SD70ace is 10.3 mm wide in the back. When you get your loco and decoder I found that the shell isn't exactly friction fit, they use some tape near the motor to add a little stickiness to keep the shell in place. I'm not sure why because the couplers have to be removed to get the shell off anyway.

Excellent.  Thanks for that and so quickly too.
Steve
Atascocita, Texas

reinhardtjh

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Re: Next18 connector
« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2019, 01:04:16 AM »
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My understanding was that this was essentially a SBS project that they contracted to  Zimo. Isn't it an exclusive item in the US available only though SBS? I'm not sure about elsewhere.

As for who designed the decoder, I still say that Bryan provided the specs and ZIMO engineers actually did the electronic design (adhering to the ZIMO's hardware and firmware architecture).  Maybe it is semantics . . .

I just happen to stumble across this today...

Streamlined Backshop - ZIMO MX660 Micro DCC Sound Decoder Application Notes
John H. Reinhardt
PRRT&HS #8909
C&O HS #11530
N-Trak #7566

Smike

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Re: Next18 connector
« Reply #43 on: February 17, 2019, 08:33:05 AM »
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It was the Lokpilot V4.0 micro.

Steveruger45

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Re: Next18 connector
« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2019, 07:16:07 PM »
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I got my c39-8 from scale trains and installed the lokpilot v4 micro in it.  It really runs and looks fantastic.
Super nice loco. 
As others had mentioned some disappointment with the sound, I thought I’d take a look at the speaker area in the tank.
From photos on spookshow  It looks like scale trains uses a 11x15mm speaker.  The recess in the tank Measures 17 x 11.5 x 4mm.  I had an 11x15 spare and it does fit but any enclosure  for it could not be glued to the sides of the speaker as it would then be too wide.  A 16 X 9 would fit in, just, but again enclosure volume would be too small.
The bottom of the speaker recess is solid metal with one small hole to pass wires through so I guess most of the sound comes down toward the Track.
In photos it doesn’t look like there is an enclosure on the OEM speaker or if there is one it’s way too small a volume.
Plus they have the speaker firing up into solid metal of the frame and no holes in the tank cover.
This maybe what is causing the Sound disappointment others here have mentioned here.
Anyway doing some measurement It does look possible to put a 73800 in positioned near the cab with a 16 x9 speaker in a pretty good sized speaker enclosure aft under the radiators.  Similarly a 73100 could fit too with speaker aft.  In both cases though you would have to loose the OEM board.


« Last Edit: February 23, 2019, 07:43:52 PM by Steveruger45 »
Steve
Atascocita, Texas