N Scale sound in locos sound terrible to me

[Rivet Miscounter]

Soumdtraxx has a layout system that might be worth investigating that appears to cater for the “passing sound” experience.  Anyone seen/heard or has it that could comment on it.?
https://www.soundtraxx.com/surround/index.php

I agree this system seems ideal ... *in theory*.  Problem is, it requires a pretty advanced (and expensive) Digitrax transponding infrastructure to function, and getting it to work properly is challenging at best.  I would also argue that the hardware used is hardly state-of-the-art, and doesn't seem to be easily upgradeable like most current systems.   IMHO, "there has to be a better way".

To the original post, I had been on the fence about sound in N when that was still my scale of choice.  I would say the Athearn F45 is what moved me to "meh, ok".   But before I bought any N sound I moved to Z, where it is--practically speaking--a non-decision.  But I'm planning a move back to either N or HO eventually and I expect it will be a standard for me at that point.   I still don't think it is *great*, even with my tempered and realistic expectations.   Like Ed I see it more as a boon to ops versus a real step to adding to a layout's auditory experience.   Admittedly, one thing tipping me toward HO is the improved quality of sound offerings.

I think some hybrid system will be the holy grail, simply because to me some good rumbling bass is what makes railroad sounds so "moving". (no pun intended)   I always thought the idea that someone (Mindheim?) had of "smartphone-based, operator only hears his own train through headphones" idea was pretty interesting.  My counter is that headphones/earbuds could take away from the ops experience of "banter" and general fellowship, which is significant IMHO.   

I would say an app that fed off NFC transceivers (or some similar technology) to establish location and feeding sound to stationary speakers would be my idea of a good idea.   Depending on the resolution of NFC transceiver locations, you could still use the onboard sound for mids/highs like directional horn/bell sounds, etc.

[propmeup1]

My two cents worth.  I have some engines that sound great and others really suck to be blunt.  It's a mixed bag too. BLI has some good ones and some bad one just like Bachmann.  Personally I found the ones I installed myself are pretty good and I'm not waving my own flag, I just get lucky sometimes.  However i have installed some that suck too.   Some locos I've installed and didn't expect to sound good ended up sounding awesome.  One of my best ones is the Concor 2-10-2 with the Tsunami 1100. Plenty room for a good size speaker in a custom box i made.  It is a great sound and I made it into a Pennsy N1 of it with a lot of custom work. Next one will be a Reading K1 2-10-2 with a custom 3D printed shell and tender.

Back to sound. Personally I think it is to what each of us like.  I love the band The Who, America and Neil Diamond. I bet others here would say I hate them all and love other artist. It's your hobby and your ear and your right to like what sounds good to you.

One other thing, I do run with it louder then it should be due to running trains of 50-75 cars and high speed passenger. Sometimes I use the sound to help drown out the wheel noise.

[peteski]

Personally I found the ones I installed myself are pretty good and I'm not waving my own flag, I just get lucky sometimes.  However i have installed some that suck too.   Some locos I've installed and didn't expect to sound good ended up sounding awesome.

Nothing wrong with blowing your own whistle or ringing your own bell!  Be proud man! 

It has has nothing to do with luck though.  If you use a good quality decoder, with good sound project installed, and have room in the model for good speaker in an enclosure, then you are pretty much guaranteed a good (by N scale standard) sound.  That's all it takes.

But if you install some early MRC sound decoder with a 0.5" free-standing speaker, then I guarantee that it will suck.

[CRL]

...good (by N scale standard) sound.

That’s quite a qualifier to justify poor sound performance.

My original post stated that, to my ears, N-scale sound equipped locomotives sound terrible. However, larger S & O scale locos that have room for much larger speakers sound better. N-scale is just too small to use speakers which are capable of producing the frequency range necessary to approximate the sound of a locomotive.

Think of it this way. Use some tiny little earbud speakers to listen to music. They sound marginally acceptable as long as you keep them in your ears where the full sound frequency range produced by the earbuds is delivered in the enclosed environment of your ear canal. Now, remove the earbuds from your ears, set them down in fron of you and try to listen to the music. You probably won’t hear anything unless you turn the volume up to maximum to the point of driving the speakers to distortion levels, then all you’ll hear is crap even if you get within a couple of inches of the earbuds. Those little earbuds are most likely tiny ported speakers with the high frequency delivered from one opening and the lower frequency delivered from the other opening. As long as they’re used in your ears, they work okay.

Maybe that’s the answer for N-scale sound. Just install a mini-jack on your loco, plug in your earbuds to your locomotive and you have sound. 

Don’t forget to daylight all your tunnels. 

[tehachapifan]

You're too conclusive as if you've already heard the best that can be achieved in N scale.

[Steveruger45]

My 2 cents.
I already have the answer to n scale sound that suits me just fine.  Esu loksound and a good speaker in a suitable sized and constructed enclosure.
I guess if you think n scale sound is “terrible” then perhaps you should not model it but go to G gauge to be happy.

[tehachapifan]

Steve, I'm right there with you but your response kind of reads as if N scale sound is lacking as compared to G scale. I still, to this day, get my socks blown off with how good many of my sound installs actually sound (I say many as I believe the only thing lacking in a few of my others is the quality of the sound recording). Does it sound like a 1:1 loco is in the room? No. But it's very convincing for a loco that's 500' or more away. I guess that's the rub that's always going to be the rub. Oh, well....more sound decoders form me!

[Steveruger45]

Hey Russ.  Nooooo.  That’s not what I meant at all. 

What I was trying to say was that if the OP has such a deep set prejudice against all things n scale sound because of speaker size etc then I suggest he use a large scale so you can get a ginormous speaker in and ear bud sockets or whatever etc etc. And that’s fine as the OP is perfectly entitled to his own opinion, as are the rest of us.

I’m  really impressed with the loksound, so much so I have now 36 sound locos all loksound.  Not a small investment.  If n scale sound was “terrible” I would not have spent over 3 grand on it and still buying.   
I’ve recently pre-ordered a Kato UP4141 and two Atlas SoPac gp40’s with esu loksound so there’s close to another 500 bucks spent.  I keep saying to myself enough is enough but I still keep adding to my loksound fleet.
 I’d like to hear the new version 5 decoders.

To be fair though I’m not so much a fan of those MRC and digitrax drop in boards with the built on non enclosed speakers.  Maybe the OP has only heard these?   But you can improve those too by fitting a good speaker and enclosure. I’ve done that and it makes a big difference but the loksound is still better in every way IMHO.
 

[Jim Starbuck]

I hadn’t really thought about sound as it applied to scale but this thread got me thinking.

Good quality installs in N with carefully adjusted and balanced levels sound exactly like they should look if that makes sense.
N scale has always looked “right” in regards to proportion to me. Add to that clear sound at levels in proportion to the size of the model and it makes a pleasing combination. I think that’s why volume plays such critical role. Along those same lines enters speed. Running N at appropriate scale speeds also adds to the realism as opposed to running even a finely detailed model too fast can detract from the scene. This is the same as trying to crank the sound up beyond the proportion of the scale causing it to take away rather than contribute.
I think that’s why larger scale sound doesn’t particularly appeal to me. The bigger the model, the bigger the sound.
I’ll stick with my N scale.

[BCR751]

Whatever happened to Lance Mindhim's (sp?) idea of using a stationary sound-only decoder in conjunction with the loco decoder and an external amplifier hooked to headphones?  The concept seemed to be sound, I just haven't heard anything about it lately.  It would seem to be the answer for N-Scale.

Doug

[CRL]

I guess if you think n scale sound is “terrible” then perhaps you should not model it but go to G gauge to be happy.

Thanks, but no. I think I’ll stay with N-scale, but will avoid sound equipped locos.

[Mark5]

This (HO) loco opened my mind up to the possibilies - sound can be great if done well.

[CRL]

Kelly’s Heros = Best Movie Ever!!!

This is a viable option for N-scale, but must be used with RR&Co Traincontroller system: https://www.freiwald.com/pages/sound.htm

Expensive, but you get what you pay for in this hobby, dammit.

[peteski]

That’s quite a qualifier to justify poor sound performance.

My original post stated that, to my ears, N-scale sound equipped locomotives sound terrible. However, larger S & O scale locos that have room for much larger speakers sound better. N-scale is just too small to use speakers which are capable of producing the frequency range necessary to approximate the sound of a locomotive.

Think of it this way. Use some tiny little earbud speakers to listen to music. They sound marginally acceptable as long as you keep them in your ears where the full sound frequency range produced by the earbuds is delivered in the enclosed environment of your ear canal. Now, remove the earbuds from your ears, set them down in fron of you and try to listen to the music. You probably won’t hear anything unless you turn the volume up to maximum to the point of driving the speakers to distortion levels, then all you’ll hear is crap even if you get within a couple of inches of the earbuds. Those little earbuds are most likely tiny ported speakers with the high frequency delivered from one opening and the lower frequency delivered from the other opening. As long as they’re used in your ears, they work okay.

Maybe that’s the answer for N-scale sound. Just install a mini-jack on your loco, plug in your earbuds to your locomotive and you have sound. 

Don’t forget to daylight all your tunnels. 

@CRL - As I mentioned in the second paragraph in my post early in this https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=46248.msg602862#msg602862 thread:

...just like with any audio equipment (including home and car sound systems), this is a very subjective subject.

Obviously, you are not a fan of N scale sound experience, but many others (going by what you see posted here) are content with N scale sound.  Then, some others agree with you. The bottom line so: if you find N scale sound unsatisfactory, nobody is forcing you to use it.

[CRL]

Per petski: “The bottom line so: if you find N scale sound unsatisfactory, nobody is forcing you to use it.”

Don’t worry, I won’t be forced into using on board sound as long as it remains a choice from the manufacturers. I buy non-DCC equipped locos so I can use my choice of decoders.

My intent with this thread was to find out if there were others that thought N-scale sound was bad, or if I was alone, not to change minds. Several others indicated they agreed with me, others indicated they liked it, and some suggested I hadn’t heard the best or I would like it. Wrong. I still prefer analogue to digital recordings, LP records to CD’s, so even with the onset of some tinnitus, I can still hear those differences which is probably at the root of my opinion.

Surely, there’s room on this board for more than one curmudgeon.