Author Topic: Lineside pole clinic  (Read 861 times)

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Dave V

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Re: Lineside pole clinic
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2018, 05:04:27 PM »
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@peteski

I'd asked @robert3985 if he wanted to start a thread but @David K. Smith got to it before I got Bob's response (I'm two hours behind you guys).  So by the time I was up in Mountain Standard Time the need to port the posts over was obviated.
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robert3985

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Re: Lineside pole clinic
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2018, 06:01:22 PM »
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@peteski

I'd asked @robert3985 if he wanted to start a thread but @David K. Smith got to it before I got Bob's response (I'm two hours behind you guys).  So by the time I was up in Mountain Standard Time the need to port the posts over was obviated.

No Biggie...I was busy trying to find nice, good quality bikes for my two oldest grandkids and didn't get around to replying quickly.  I'm sure DKS will handle this thread well!

As for the striping practice on ROW utility poles, the examples I've found also have a mileage placard on the pole with four stripes.

Photo (1) - ROW utility 4 stripe mile-marker pole with mileage placard on U.P. at Echo Utah:


This photo illustrates several points that are significant for the N-scale modeler.  (1) ROW utility pole wires are small...ranging from #10 to #6 wire.  Actual diameter for #10 wire is .102" which translates to .00068" in N-scale.  Larger #6 wire is .162" in diameter...translating to .001" in N-scale.  Basically invisible in N-scale, even if we decided to double the diameters...or triple them.  EZ-Line, "fine" size, has a diameter of .010"...which is ten times greater than what is large #6 power carrying wire.  If you decide to use EZ-Line, I would use either black or green just to minimize its visibility. (2) Although it isn't immediately obvious, you can see there's a taper on these poles since they were originally trees.  Chucking your wooden swab sticks into a drill or lathe, then sanding a slight taper into them is worth the effort...finish them off with a fairly fine grit paper...and scribe "grain" into them using a fine Zona saw blade, then brush them with a small, stiff steel brush to get rid of the fuzz.

Another subject is that although many of the ROW utility pole photos show the tops cut at an angle to shed water...depending on the era and location, this may not always be the case...even on the same railroad. Specifications for poles in yards can be different than poles along the right-of-way as has been pointed out.  Here's a photo at Morgan, halfway between Weber Canyon and Wilhemina Pass on the U.P. mainline.  Note the "roofing" of the top of the pole....

Photo (2) - "Roofing" cut with two angles at top of pole as opposed to a single angled cut:


Additionally, note that the insulators in photo (2) are all uniform and the same color (as far as we can tell with a B&W photo!), which gives some indication that the hodge-podge of insulators we see on ROW utility poles today, was not the case in the 40's and 50's.  For modelers interested in catching the "flavor" of their location and era they've chosen for their layout, this is just one more little detail.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore


« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 06:09:55 PM by robert3985 »

draskouasshat

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Re: Lineside pole clinic
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2018, 02:07:03 PM »
+3
Ok, i have to correct some things here.
First, it's just called pole line, not utility poles, telegraph lines, or anything of the sort. It's actually the signal pole line. Yes, it did carry telegraph lines originally, but with the installation of a signal system, it became the signal pole line maintained by the signal dept.
Banding marks for mileposts is a very railroad specific thing.
Line wire is either #6 or #9 wire made of solid copper, copper clad iron wire, or iron wire. #6 is what's mainly used due to its strength.
If the top arm only has 2 wires, its AC stepped up to 220v or 440v so it can travel longer distances.
The number of crossarms is proportionate to how may tracks/ signal circuits there are/were.
Pins 4/5 field side were also AC if it was only 110v without a crossarm up top.
Pins 4/5 track side were code line(that sh!t hits when it bites you)
1/2/3 on each side are home/ distant circuits or other information circuits.
This is mainly santa fe standards but alot of the same applies tti other railroads.
Circuit design varied by railroad, region, time frame, and signal circuit design to model pole line accurately. You basically need to look at photos of where and when to get close.
Poles next to road crossings are 45' or taller and the pole line stepped up to it 3 or so poles back.
There's more and I'll add info later

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superchief

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Re: Lineside pole clinic
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2018, 05:19:58 PM »
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thanks Adam for the extra info!! Gordon

Simon D.

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Re: Lineside pole clinic
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2018, 03:23:55 PM »
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Jeff Wilson's The Model Railroader's Guide to Trackside Structures has a whole very informative chapter on lineside poles - don't think it is is print however.

robert3985

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Re: Lineside pole clinic
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2019, 09:13:46 PM »
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I was following a Google search on a totally unrelated subject and stumbled across these documents, which pertain to this thread.  Interestingly, some of the information that helps us out when modeling different eras is contained in the comments on documents that need to be updated. 

Photo (1) - Mile markers on Telegraph poles and alternate signage when there are no convenient Telegraph poles:


Photo (2) - Mile markers on Telegraph poles and alternate signage when there are not convenient Telegraph poles:


You'll note that the revision dates on these two documents are 1977 and 1979.  Here is an earlier revision...

Photo (3) - Mile markers on Telegraph Poles and alternate signage when there were no convenient Telegraph poles which includes the Transition Era:


The revision date on this document is 1964, but it was adopted in 1905.  Note the difference in the non-Telegraph pole signage from the first two documents.

Here's another document that gives us something else to think about concerning mileage markers...

Photo (4) -  Showing a possible earliest version of mile markers on Telegraph poles and alternate non-Telegraph pole signage:


When reading the hand-written notes on the last two documents, it says that the 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 stripes on in-between poles were "painted"...instead of being white "top-roofing" paper or Scotchlite material, which I think were adopted in 1964.

It appears to me that prior to 1964, the stripes on wooden telegraph poles indicating mileage were painted, and the four stripes indicated in photo #3 also weren't adopted until 1964.  Earlier than that, it was the two 12" wide stripes on top and bottom of the mileage number boards...which prior to 1964 were painted, as were the 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 mile stripes on the in-between poles.

My conclusion that the four stripes were adopted in 1964 comes from the redacted callouts, which when I Photoshop the document can be read and say "1' 0" ".

This means that the in-between fractional mileage for pre-1964 telegraph poles were painted, with the mile markers consisting of two 12" wide stripes on the top and bottom of the mile boards.

Post 1964 were four white stripes using "top-roof paper" or later Scotchlite material, and signs with thin metal posts where there weren't any telegraph poles.  In-between fractional stripes also changed to white material rather than paint.

Also note that U.P. called these poles at the time "Telegraph Poles", even though they were obviously more than that.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore