Author Topic: LokSound Select HO Scale Onboard IM SD40-2  (Read 1297 times)

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davefoxx

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Re: LokSound Select HO Scale Onboard IM SD40-2
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2018, 08:39:53 AM »
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Well, none of the Full Throttle features, such as Drive Hold or Independent Brake work.  But, last night, I even set up F5 to operate the separately-lighted numberboards in a consist.  That works.  What the heck?!

If I get the courage, I may pop the shell off and take a look to see what decoder is actually in there.  It's definitely an ESU, because the LokProgrammer has no issues with it during programming, and everything else works but Drive Hold and the Independent Brake. :?

DFF

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RBrodzinsky

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Re: LokSound Select HO Scale Onboard IM SD40-2
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2018, 11:11:16 AM »
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Dave - just another reminder: separate the actions of CV settings (lighting functions, etc), from the actions of Sound Slots (including drive hold, independent brake, etc).  Since CV settings are independent, you are clearly programming them correctly.  But something is very weird concerning the loading of the sound slot info.

Maybe try to force a decoder firmware update from LP?
Rick Brodzinsky
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davefoxx

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Re: LokSound Select HO Scale Onboard IM SD40-2
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2018, 11:25:14 AM »
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Dave - just another reminder: separate the actions of CV settings (lighting functions, etc), from the actions of Sound Slots (including drive hold, independent brake, etc).  Since CV settings are independent, you are clearly programming them correctly.  But something is very weird concerning the loading of the sound slot info.

I think you just went above my pay grade.  I don't know how to separate the actions of CV settings from sound slots.  Sorry for my ignorance.  :oops:

Maybe try to force a decoder firmware update from LP?

Well, if I understand how the LokProgrammer works, I already did a firmware upgrade when I loaded sound file number 73408 to the decoder.  I can check tonight, because I have the old firmware number in my JMRI file on my Mac and the new firmware number in the JMRI file on my new laptop, i.e., I can easily compare which version of the firmware was on the decoder both before and after the reflash.

Thanks,
DFF

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tehachapifan

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Re: LokSound Select HO Scale Onboard IM SD40-2
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2018, 12:27:27 PM »
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No.  Full Throttle is firmware that's loaded into the decoder.  As long as Dave is using a version newer than V4..5.0 (I think, current version is 4.7.2) then the Full Throttle firmware is in the LokProgrammer software and when you update the decoder, the new firmware gets loaded.  Besides, if FT wasn't in the decoder, then none of the other Ft features would work either.

I believe it's still possible that the decoder itself might not be able to accept FT upgrades. For example, it's my understanding that the LokPilot Nano non sound decoder still can't be programmed with Drive Hold even though the LokPilot Micro non-sound (V4.0 anyway) can be. I seem to recall the V4.0 being the key to this, at least with the LokPilot Micro. I also seem to remember seeing somewhere that a V3.5 LokSound decoder, for example (if that exact version even existed), can't be upgraded to a V4.0 with a LoKProgrammer. All this said, I don't have any earlier generation LokSound decoders to confirm any of this with and I could have it wrong. I also don't follow HO scale releases much. Is this a recently-manufacturered model?

....also, just to confirm, when you open the LokProgrammer and you select "modify settings of an ESU decoder" with the loco on the programming track (causing the loco's decoder to be read), do you still see "Drive Hold" listed on the "Function Mapping" page?




« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 01:07:39 PM by tehachapifan »
Russ

davefoxx

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Re: LokSound Select HO Scale Onboard IM SD40-2
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2018, 12:47:56 PM »
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Thanks for responding.  You might be right.  I literally just registered for the forum on the ESU website.  As soon as I'm approved, I hope to check or pose the question there.  I can't believe that I'm the first person to run into this problem.  If I get an answer, I'll be sure to bring it back here.  I hope I don't have to buy new decoders, because I already paid for DCC and sound.  :P  That, and I have no clue on what type of connector (8, 9, 21, 22 pin, etc.) is what in these decoders.

DFF

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tehachapifan

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Re: LokSound Select HO Scale Onboard IM SD40-2
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2018, 01:13:54 PM »
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Thanks for responding.  You might be right.  I literally just registered for the forum on the ESU website.  As soon as I'm approved, I hope to check or pose the question there.  I can't believe that I'm the first person to run into this problem.  If I get an answer, I'll be sure to bring it back here.  I hope I don't have to buy new decoders, because I already paid for DCC and sound.  :P  That, and I have no clue on what type of connector (8, 9, 21, 22 pin, etc.) is what in these decoders.

DFF

Good idea on joining that forum. Also, I did modifiy my reply above asking if Drive Hold still appears when you read the decoder. You may see it see listed it in a newly-downloaded sound file but, if it dissapears when you read the decoder with the LokProgrammer, that might be a clue.
Russ

davefoxx

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Re: LokSound Select HO Scale Onboard IM SD40-2
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2018, 01:39:05 PM »
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Good idea on joining that forum. Also, I did modifiy my reply above asking if Drive Hold still appears when you read the decoder. You may see it see listed it in a newly-downloaded sound file but, if it dissapears when you read the decoder with the LokProgrammer, that might be a clue.

Hmm.  Interesting.  I'll do that tonight.  Details at 11.

DFF

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RBrodzinsky

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Re: LokSound Select HO Scale Onboard IM SD40-2
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2018, 01:41:12 PM »
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I think you just went above my pay grade.  I don't know how to separate the actions of CV settings from sound slots.  Sorry for my ignorance.  :oops:

Well, if I understand how the LokProgrammer works, I already did a firmware upgrade when I loaded sound file number 73408 to the decoder.  I can check tonight, because I have the old firmware number in my JMRI file on my Mac and the new firmware number in the JMRI file on my new laptop, i.e., I can easily compare which version of the firmware was on the decoder both before and after the reflash.

Thanks,
DFF

Dave - yes, the programmer SHOULD have updated the firmware.  But....   To manually update just the firmware, select Tools|Update decoder firmware.   You can also check the firmware version by selecting Programmer|Extended decoder information   This will tell you what is in the decoder.

Reading the decoder info back into LP will NOT tell you if drive hold is there or not.  This is because the names of the sound slots are not read from the decoder back into an empty project, nor is the sound slot data.  If you have a known project open when you do a "Read decoder Data", it will just update the CVs.  (Sound slots are one-way:  LokProgrammer --> Decoder)

Sound Slots are more than just sound files.  They are basically a bunch of special little programs which monitor different inputs from the decoder (speed steps, etc), and then do certain actions (including playing sound files, coasting etc.), just like the other "normal" decoder programs such as motor control, lights, etc.

CVs are setting values. All the little programs in the decoder (those in the sound slots, and those "hard" coded)  read these settings (the ones they are interested in), and then adjust their outputs based on these settings.  So, for example, when you set the Aux1 output to be a steady light, the little program looks up the CV which controls how Aux1 is supposed to act when it is turned on.

The ESU LokSound Yahoo group is much more active and responsive to issues than the ESU Forums.  Matt Henry and crew monitor that group, and there are very knowledgeable folks (e.g. Dave Heap - who also does a lot of the JMRI decoder sections; and Phil Dunlap - who rewrote the LokProgrammer manual into something usable) too.
Rick Brodzinsky
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davefoxx

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Re: LokSound Select HO Scale Onboard IM SD40-2
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2018, 06:54:00 PM »
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Thanks, Rick.  I posed the question on the ESU LokSound YahooGroup, so we'll see if I can get any answers there or on the ESU forum where I'm still waiting for acceptance of my registration.

DFF

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davefoxx

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Re: LokSound Select HO Scale Onboard IM SD40-2
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2018, 07:07:23 PM »
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The decoder firmware version before the reflash was 4.14.9228.  if I understand correctly, it must be above 4.15.9240 for Full Throttle features to work.  The same decoder after the reflash is 4.17.9249.  It should work.  :(

DFF

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tehachapifan

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Re: LokSound Select HO Scale Onboard IM SD40-2
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2018, 07:20:38 PM »
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….Reading the decoder info back into LP will NOT tell you if drive hold is there or not.  This is because the names of the sound slots are not read from the decoder back into an empty project, nor is the sound slot data.  If you have a known project open when you do a "Read decoder Data", it will just update the CVs.  (Sound slots are one-way:  LokProgrammer --> Decoder)….


Ah, you're right. I knew this was the case when looking at the "sound slot settings" page, but I could've sworn Drive Hold would still appear on the "function mapping" page upon readback. I read back one of my Loksound equipped locos and, yeah, it only says "sound slot 2" on the F9 line instead of Drive Hold like I previously thought.



Russ

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Re: LokSound Select HO Scale Onboard IM SD40-2
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2018, 07:31:07 PM »
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Dave, did you try downloading the file from the IM web site?  I think it is supposed to be the same as the file posted on the ESU site, but one never knows.  And if THAT file also did not work, it would give you a good reason to call IM and say "what's up?"

The fact that TWO different files from ESU's site didn't work properly points to either the decoder or the way the NCE system is communicating with the decoder.  Did you try remapping Drive Hold to another function key?  The reason I suggest doing this is that if it worked after remapping to, say, F3, then that would cause me to suspect some problem in the way the NCE system is communicating with the decoder when you press F9 or F10.

John C.

RBrodzinsky

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Re: LokSound Select HO Scale Onboard IM SD40-2
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2018, 08:33:34 PM »
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Ooh, and building on John’s suggestions, how do you have the LokProgrammer hooked up to track? Is the programming track long enough to use the Cab Throttle in LP to test the functions? Such as turn on Drive Hold (F9) and the increase the throttle steps. Loco engine should ramp up, but no movement.

Of course if your other units work correctly with FT and your setup, we are back to trying to figure out this one.
Rick Brodzinsky
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davefoxx

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Re: LokSound Select HO Scale Onboard IM SD40-2
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2018, 08:35:11 PM »
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John,

I haven't tried downloading from IM's website yet.  But, I am messing around with remapping right now.  I'm using F6 as a test.  Drive Hold didn't work.  But, it gets better!  I tried Run8 (sound slot 20) and got Brake Set/Release.  WHAT?!  When I tried Brake Set/Release (sound slot 12), I got nothing.  HUH?!  So, it's really messed up for some reason.

I'm off to IM's website.

DFF

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davefoxx

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Re: LokSound Select HO Scale Onboard IM SD40-2
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2018, 08:37:24 PM »
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Ooh, and building on John’s suggestions, how do you have the LokProgrammer hooked up to track? Is the programming track long enough to use the Cab Throttle in LP to test the functions? Such as turn on Drive Hold (F9) and the increase the throttle steps. Loco engine should ramp up, but no movement.

Of course if your other units work correctly with FT and your setup, we are back to trying to figure out this one.

Yeah, I have a separate programming track with three pieces of Unitrack.  Long enough to put the locomotive into motion to test Drive Hold with the Driver's Cab in the LokProgrammer.  No go, tho.

DFF

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