Author Topic: Information needed on UP Gray paint scheme  (Read 613 times)

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carlso

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Information needed on UP Gray paint scheme
« on: November 02, 2018, 02:11:33 PM »
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I have "searched" both TRW and the comp @ TB and can not find. Some time ago (1-3 years ?) one of you very talented artists posted several shots of some UP Challengers that you painted with the gray scheme. I think you even did some for ST.
My question is where can I find those photos and what brand of paint did you use. I looked at TruColor UP Harbor Mist but it looks too dark.

Any info appreciated.

Carl

Carl Sowell
El Paso, Texas
Southern New Mexico N Scalers, Las Cruces, New Mexico

robert3985

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Re: Information needed on UP Gray paint scheme
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2018, 02:37:45 AM »
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I have "searched" both TRW and the comp @ TB and can not find. Some time ago (1-3 years ?) one of you very talented artists posted several shots of some UP Challengers that you painted with the gray scheme. I think you even did some for ST.
My question is where can I find those photos and what brand of paint did you use. I looked at TruColor UP Harbor Mist but it looks too dark.

Any info appreciated.

Carl

Carl @carlso , In my experience over the years, and as a direct result of a color comparison I did in the early 1980's with various manufacturer's U.P. colors against a real, freshly painted SD40-2 on a warm Spring day in the Riverdale Yard, the most accurate U.P. Harbor Mist Gray and Armour Yellow are Scalecoat II's UP Harbor Mist Gray and UP Yellow.

For some reason, most manufacturers screw up UP colors, even though the colors are extremely well documented.

For U.P.'s "Two-tone-gray" or "Greyhound" color scheme, there were two main gray colors, which were prototypically labeled "Light Gray" and "Dark Gray" and titled "Exterior Passenger Car Enamel" because they were a match for Pullman's two-tone-gray scheme.  The two colors were initially separated by a third, very light gray called "Silver Gray" to match the Pullman color called "Imitation Silver".  It is important to note that neither color was metallic...just very very light gray.

The first U.P. TTG scheme was applied shortly before June 1946 to 800 series FEF's and lasted only a few months before being changed in August of 1946 to Armour Yellow separating stripes and lettering, to match U.P.'s Streamliner paint scheme.

On June 2, 1949, the TTG scheme was changed back to having the "Silver Gray" separating stripes and lettering, but the paint's name changed in 1950 to "Striping Gray".  It is important to note that many U.P. shop personnel called this scheme "the white scheme" because the Striping Gray stripe was very close to white. It is also important to note that this paint was totally non-metallic.

U.P. "Light Gray" paint was virtually identical to "Harbor Mist Gray", with "Harbor Mist Gray" being "...only slightly lighter than Light Gray."  It is speculated that the paints were supposed to be the same, but "Harbor Mist Gray" originated with EMD, and "Light Gray" came from Pullman.

Although I haven't painted any TTG U.P. engines yet, I have bought the colors I am going to use for painting several Challengers and brass FEF's to run on my 1947 through 1956 time period.  The colors I have are Scalecoat II UP Harbor Mist Gray #2032, Scalecoat II UP Dark Gray #2033, Scalecoat II Engine Black #2118, Scalecoat II White #2011, and Scalecoat II UP Yellow #2022.

Another point is that the smokebox and firebox were darker on the TTG painted engines.  An excellent example for your reference are color photos of the 8444 when she was painted in TTG.  Look at the smokebox and notice that the sides were way darker than when painted in the black scheme, with the face of the smokebox being much lighter than the sides.

Also, note that all Challengers when painted to TTG had smoke deflectors and were oil fired.

Hope this helps!

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore


carlso

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Re: Information needed on UP Gray paint scheme
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2018, 12:24:26 PM »
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Bob,

This reply more than helps. I truly appreciate the thought and time on your part to put such a complete reply together. Many thanks.

This is a Key, Nakamura made, Challenger that ran excellently as analog but I got a wild hair to decoderize it. It had a short that I just have been able to overcome after 3 years of trying. I have some Athearn smoke deflectors that will have to be cut down some for correct fit. I have the Microscale decals and will have to get paint. Of course the, as  made loco, is 3985 but I have not found any TTG paint on 3985 but rather 3977. That's OK however.

Once again, thanks for the excellent reply,
Carl
Carl Sowell
El Paso, Texas
Southern New Mexico N Scalers, Las Cruces, New Mexico

Cajonpassfan

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Re: Information needed on UP Gray paint scheme
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2018, 03:16:15 PM »
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Carl, looks like you've been a busy boy with all these articulateds :D
As to the numbers, the Challengers painted in TTG included 3975, 3976, 3977, 3978 and 3982, 3983, and 3984.
I would also add that while Bob is correct about the striping scheme specs being changed from yellow to very light gray in June '49, I'm not sure this was applied to the TTG Challengers as they start showing up in photos repainted back to black as early as July '49 (3976). But, color photos from this short period are rare so who knows...
Have fun. I have one of these, factory painted in black, that I installed an early Sountraxx decoder in back in 2000 and it's still one of my best runners (and outpulls the Athearns at least 2:1).
Otto
« Last Edit: November 03, 2018, 09:23:46 PM by Cajonpassfan »