Athearn Challenger UP 3977 with ESU Locksound -No Sound Help Please

[kverdon]

Hi All,

I have an Athearn N Scale Challenger 3977 with ESU Locksound Decoder that has lost all sound or at least the sound is at such a low level to be barely dectectable. I *think* I can barely hear the whistle bu that is it. I have tried toggling the "mute" function. I use this with a Digitrax System.

I have tried everything to try to reset the decoder to factory Default. These include:

Programming CV 8 to 8 in Ops mode. It says "Good" but does not appear to reset even when removed from the track and replaced on the track. The locomotive still responds to the programmed address of 3977 after this is done. When i try to read any CV in ops move I get a Fail message.

Tried Programming CV 8 to 8 in Pg mode on the Programing Track - no ack

Tried Programming CV 8 to 8 in Pd mode on the Programing Track - no ack

Any suggestions outside of sending the locomotive to a shop to have a better decoder installed?

thanks, this is a bit of coal in my stocking.

[peteski]

As I understand, these  locos did not come with ESU LokSound decoders installed at the factory.  Is this a 2nd hand model where the LokSound decoder was installed by someone?  If that is the case, there might be a problem with the speaker install.

I also assume that other functions (headlights) work properly?

Which specific Digitrax DCC system do you have? I'm asking because I think that some Digitrax systems have problems programming (on programming track) sound decoders.  I don't  have much experience with Digitrax. Also in OPS mode there is no way the decoder can acknowledge that it received the programming. You will likely always see "Good" on the throttle.

[kverdon]

I’m using a DCS240+ command station and dt402 Throttle.

Yes, this batch of UP Challengers came factory installed with a Loksound Decoder. Lights and Engine Control work ok. Just no sound.

[peteski]

I’m using a DCS240+ command station and dt402 Throttle.

Yes, this batch of UP Challengers came factory installed with a Loksound Decoder. Lights and Engine Control work ok. Just no sound.

I didn't know Athearn used ESU decoders in that loco.  I believe the first fun had those terrible MRC decoders, and the 2nd run (one I have) used Soundtraxx Tsunamis.  I also just checked their website and the next run (announced for 2023) uses Tsunamis.  I'm surprised they used ESU in any previous runs.  Are you 100% sure your model has a factory installed ESU decoder?



I believe your DCC system should have no problems writing or reading CVs on the programming track.
Did you buy this model new unused, or 2nd hand?

Also, did the loco packaging include any instruction sheets showing the function key assignments?  You tried the "mute" function. I assume that was F8?

Also, if this decoder has a custom sound project for that specific loco uploaded, the factory reset might not reset the address to 3.  It will reset the address to whatever address was configured in that particular sound project (like 3977).  So that is not a reliable indication of whether the decoder was reset.

On the programming track, have you tried writing any other CVs besides 8?  CV8 is not a good test because it is a special CV.  Can you read or write CV29 for example?  Also, can you read (not write) CV8? what are the values of 29 and 8? It's been a while since I programmed using Digitrax, and my system automatically figures out what communication mode to use.

I know that right now you are not a happy camper, but I had to smile when you wrote "Any suggestions outside of sending the locomotive to a shop to have a better decoder installed?"  ESU sound decoders are one of the best ones around.  There is another current thread where Mike bought 3 BLI locos (they are only sold with BLI sound decoder preinstalled), and he will be ripping those out, replacing them with  . . . ESU decoders.  While there might be some issue with this particular decoder, I would not recommend that you change it for another brand.

If you can read those CVs, read CV63. That is the Master Volume Control.  0-255. Factory setting is 180.  If it is set too low, set it to a higher value.  Or if it is at 180, set it to something like 240 and see if the sound volume changes.

When DCC works, it is very easy and fun to use. But if something doesn't work, things can get complicated (especially with complex sound decoders).  After all decoders are tiny computers, and we know that computers sometimes misbehave.

[kverdon]

Aaargh! You are right Peteski. It has a Tsunami not ESU decoder! Got it confused with another loco!

I’ve tried programming other CVS without success. I can’t read back any of them.

[peteski]

Aaargh! You are right Peteski. It has a Tsunami not ESU decoder! Got it confused with another loco!

I’ve tried programming other CVS without success. I can’t read back any of them.

No problem, I'm glad I kept asking.  If I were you, I woudl edit the inital post and change the subject line to be accurate. That way members familiar with Tsunami are more likely to chime in.  WHile at it, maybe even add "on Digitrax system".  Again, it will invite the specific members to peek at the thread.

I don't have any experience with troubleshooting Tsunami decoders on Digitrax system, and I have not really anything with them as far as programming goes. I'm pretty sure that I am using my Challenger and Big Boy with decoders at factory defaults.  I don't run them very often. I sometimes take them to model train shows to run on my club's NTRAK layout where we do use Digitrax, but the locos work ok for me so I just run them.

The problem with accessing CVs on programming track might be due to the typical problem with the capacitors on the sound decoder. Just a speculation.

As I see it, the problem is either programming (like volume set too low), or electrical (bad speaker, speaker wiring, defective audio amplifier chip on the decoder).

[NDave]

I don't have any insight on how to troubleshoot issues with Digitrax, as I use an NCE Powercab. However, I will relate that the sound function of the factory-installed Tsunami decoder in my 2017 issue Athearn challenger DID die after less than a year. I was running it w sound, the sound started to break up and crackle, and a couple feet later it was dead... no sound at all. Motor, light, and all other functions continued to operate fine. Since it was under warranty, I sent it back to Athearn for repair... they replaced the decoder.

To make a long story much shorter, I eventually ended up replacing the 2nd factory decoder with a hard-wired Tsunami 2 Steam 2 decoder, which is MUCH better than the factory version used by Athearn.  It's been running great since... My only regret is that I finished the install just a few weeks before Soundtraxx announced its "Big Steam" decoder, which includes sounds more specific to U.P. 3985. If only I had procrastinated a little longer!.

[robert3985]

When I first got my Digitrax DCC system 9 years ago, I noticed that I couldn't program any of my Athearn Big Boys or Challengers.  It worked just fine on my non-sound decoders however.

These were all first-run Athearn Big Boys & Challengers...equipped with the POS MRC DCC sound decoders with the remote-control antennae for running on DC.

After a bit of online research, I discovered that most sound decoders take more voltage to program than non-sound decoders and that voltage boosters were available for programming tracks from several manufacturers since DCC systems of that vintage didn't have enough voltage to program CV's or do much of anything else in sound decoders.

I bought the PTB-100 Programming Track Booster from Soundtraxx.com which cured my problems with ALL of my sound equipped engines at that time and since then.

For reading CV's or any other programming other than acquiring an engine or consisting, I use my PTB-100 powered programming track for all of my engines now since they're all sound-equipped.

However, even being able to mess with the POS MRC sound decoders didn't improve their sound quality...so I changed them all out for Soundtraxx Tsunamis as soon as I could and tossed the MRC's into the trash.

Since I had the PTB-100 Programming Track Booster already installed when the 2nd run of Big Boys & Challenger from Athearn came out, I haven't had any problems programming them since the PTB-100 takes care of any potential problems.

Get the PTB-100 Programming Track Booster here: https://soundtraxx.com/accessories/installation-accessories/dcc-accessories/ptb-100-programming-track-booster/

Also, I believe that later DCC systems have upped the voltage when programming both on the programming track and in OP mode which eliminates this problem.

Photo (1) - Here's my DCC power board I use for my portable layout, with the PTB-100 mounted to the far right with its green LED glowing:


As for the quality of sound in Soundtraxx Tsunamis or the ESU Loksound decoders,  I use ESU's in my diesels, and Soundtraxx in my steam engines.  I find that the integral frequency equalizer in the Soundtraxx Tsunamis allow me to fine-tune the decoder for better overall steam simulation than I can get out of ESU's and the Tsunami's UP whistle is much more Big Boy/Challenger/FEF sounding than what ESU uses.   I don't have that problem with diesel sound, and as far as I'm concerned, ESU Loksound for diesels is perfect...or as perfect as N-scale sound is going to be.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[CRR Chase]

I you are able to, download the decoder pro system. This made resetting decoders and rehabbing them easier for me at least.

It is free, plus it simplifies things.
 
https://www.jmri.org/help/en/html/apps/DecoderPro/index.shtml
 
You will also need a PR4 unit from Digitrax https://www.digitrax.com/products/computer-control/

This will make your life easier for programing, at least it did mine. i think its an excellent tool.

[Viperjim1]

I may be mistaken but isn’t there reset for Athearn cv25 or cv 30 to 8. I know the factory reset is in their manual that came with the loco.