Author Topic: Metal frame breakage. Any solutions?  (Read 919 times)

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BCOL 747

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Metal frame breakage. Any solutions?
« on: September 19, 2018, 06:29:39 PM »
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I am trying to cut down the fuel tank on an Atlas RS-11 frame to make it more similar to a BC Rail RS-18 I have now gone through 4 of the metal frames due to breakage. Does anyone know if I would be able to solder or glue the piece I broke off? It happens to be the on the fuel tank where the wipers meet the frame.

Does this affect the ability of the loco to pick up electrical power?

HELP!  :scared:

Chris

Iain

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Re: Metal frame breakage. Any solutions?
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2018, 07:10:12 PM »
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It won't solder, but, you should be able to glue it.  Just note that glue won't conduct electrons.
Thanks much,
Mairi Dulaney, RHCE
Member, Free Software Foundation and Norfolk Southern Historical Society

http://jdulaney.com

mmagliaro

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Re: Metal frame breakage. Any solutions?
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2018, 08:13:49 PM »
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You cannot solder the frame.   I have repaired broken frames before by just gluing them back together with JB Weld epoxy.
Be sure to sand the surfaces to roughen them a little and get them clean and completely oil and grease free.  Wipe the surfaces with lacquer thinner and let them dry before gluing.  I cannot envision exactly where you are cutting or where it broke,
but a critical thing is that you need to be able to hold the two halves in alignment while the glue dries.  Hopefully,
there is one surface along the entire length of the frame that you can lay down on a flat surface like a glass plate while the
epoxy hardens.

Now... to really make this last, it would be way better if you could drill holes into each side, and insert two steel music wire "pins" between the halves, instead of just relying on a glued butt joint.  It can be almost impossible to spot holes in the two halves so that they will line up the pins in there.  But what you *can* do is epoxy it together first, and then drill two diagonal holes through and across the joint, and then insert the steel wires, coated in epoxy.

Pictures?  I could really help a lot more if I could see where it broke and what you're trying to cut.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 12:41:18 PM by mmagliaro »

BCOL 747

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Re: Metal frame breakage. Any solutions?
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2018, 08:48:18 PM »
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Thanks for the feedback guys. I thought JB weld might work as well. I am guessing it won't conduct electricity?

I am on the road tonight but will take a photo tomorrow when I am home.

Basically the entire fuel tank section of one side of the frame has come off in a clean break. It looks like it is attached to the frame with two tabs under the motor section.

Thanks

Chris

BCR 570

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Re: Metal frame breakage. Any solutions?
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2018, 09:20:01 PM »
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I like the idea of pins to reinforce the glue joint.

Tim
T. Horton
North Vancouver, B.C.
BCR Dawson Creek Subdivision in N Scale
www.bcrdawsonsub.ca

Spades

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Re: Metal frame breakage. Any solutions?
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2018, 09:50:10 PM »
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Ntrak had an article on stretching the RS-3 frame in the 1980's.  If you JB weld the frame you could lay an Atlas Phosphor bronze strip on top (or bottom or both)  of each frame half for frame continuity.

craigolio1

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Re: Metal frame breakage. Any solutions?
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2018, 12:50:54 AM »
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I need to do the same on the frames I’ve broken for my M420s. The issue for me as that I’ve shaved the ends of the frame off to make a smaller fuel tank. Once it’s the right size, it’s very close to the holes where the motor cradle clips go and this is the weak point. It breaks there.

Craig.

Ed Kapuscinski

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Re: Metal frame breakage. Any solutions?
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2018, 12:23:13 PM »
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Ntrak had an article on stretching the RS-3 frame in the 1980's.  If you JB weld the frame you could lay an Atlas Phosphor bronze strip on top (or bottom or both)  of each frame half for frame continuity.

I was just thinking of this. Use some brass stock and some screws or pins.

mmagliaro

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Re: Metal frame breakage. Any solutions?
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2018, 12:44:53 PM »
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I was just thinking of this. Use some brass stock and some screws or pins.

DEFINITELY a good idea.  I still can't envision exactly where this break is, so I didn't assume there was room for more metal or screws.  But if you have the room, YES... drill and tap some holes and screw brass plates across the joint.   The epoxy then becomes nothing more than a temporary thing to hold the pieces in the right position while you screw the plate across there.

Maletrain

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Re: Metal frame breakage. Any solutions?
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2018, 03:23:24 PM »
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While it is very hard to spot tight holes for alignment pins on both sides of a break, it is not too hard to spot big, sloppy holes for the pins and then fill the extra space in the holes around the pins with the same epoxy that you use to glue the sides together.  That makes it unnecessary to drill through the unsupported glue joint for a second step.

u18b

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Re: Metal frame breakage. Any solutions?
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2018, 07:10:17 PM »
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I published an article in the 80s in Model Railroading on stretching the Atlas/Kato RS-3.

Here is that chassis stretched.  I used square brass tubing held in place with 00-90 screw into the frame.
All conducts electricity.

Ron Bearden
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daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: Metal frame breakage. Any solutions?
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2018, 07:26:13 PM »
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I published an article in the 80s in Model Railroading on stretching the Atlas/Kato RS-3.

Here is that chassis stretched.  I used square brass tubing held in place with 00-90 screw into the frame.
All conducts electricity.



Needs more flywheel  :trollface:
'In my great and unmatched wisdom'

up1950s

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Re: Metal frame breakage. Any solutions?
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2018, 08:58:25 PM »
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Pins are great on butted together ends but aligning the holes is a pain in the butt . Another thing or that I have done is once the glue has dried , bore holed that go through the crack at an angle . Then get some PB wire and put little side cutter plier nicks in it to give it tooth . recheck the fit then fill the hole with glue and insert the wire . Clip and file smooth when dry . Various pins at various angles aid to rigidity .

Another method is after glued , grind a slot along the face of the frame , then pre-treat the PB wire as above , Fill the trench with epoxy and lay in the wire . File smooth when dry .

peteski

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Re: Metal frame breakage. Any solutions?
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2018, 08:57:41 PM »
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One thing not mentioned is to make sure that the glued surfaces are perfectly grease/oil free.  I would rinse them with Acetone or lacquer thinner. That will assure maximum glue adhesion.  Despite Randy's experience, I would also recommend the JB Weld epoxy (the gray stuff), not any of the 5-minute varieties. Those 5-minute epoxies are much weaker.  But I have been know to over-engineer things.  That has never failed me. Well . . . except if I ever have to disassemble something I have previously glued together.  :)
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