Author Topic: Testing Speakers  (Read 3745 times)

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peteski

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Re: Testing Speakers
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2018, 05:43:52 PM »
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Get a 3.5mm headphone cable, cut one end off, attach one channel to the speaker leads and play some tunes from your phone?

I contemplated suggesting that, but I thought that 8 ohm speaker might not play well (or even overload) the earphone amp in the phone.  Headphones have impedance higher than 8 ohms.
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MK

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Re: Testing Speakers
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2018, 09:18:47 PM »
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Hot wiring a car !    Are you from New Jersey by any chance ?   😁😁😁

Yes I am!  :D :D :D

Cajonpassfan

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Re: Testing Speakers
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2018, 12:18:31 PM »
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Another (dumb?) speaker question:
In order to increase the weight of my BLI PA's, I managed to install a number of tungsten disks in various available spaces within the body, including one disk on top of the speaker magnet It never occurred to me that may be a bad idea. Could that be the reason for the speaker failure?
Thanks,
Otto K.

peteski

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Re: Testing Speakers
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2018, 01:38:27 PM »
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Another (dumb?) speaker question:
In order to increase the weight of my BLI PA's, I managed to install a number of tungsten disks in various available spaces within the body, including one disk on top of the speaker magnet It never occurred to me that may be a bad idea. Could that be the reason for the speaker failure?
Thanks,
Otto K.

I doubt it.  Why do you thing that might be the cause of failure?  Tungsten is non-magnetic and it was not touching any electrically live parts of the speaker, correct?

Have you tested the failed speaker?  Is the problem an open voice coil (so it not longer shows 8 ohms across its terminals)?
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Cajonpassfan

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Re: Testing Speakers
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2018, 08:13:59 PM »
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Pete, frankly, I haven't had time time (or mood?) to dick with it; I find this crap to be such a waste of good hobby time. Now that I look at it close up, see pic below, the soldering connections look atrocious, and the two wires that I thought were the speaker feed are not. It appears the purple wire is one, but the other purple wire is appearently run from underneath (the middle connection?) I suspect the black wire must be power pickup, with wire strands dangerously close to the middle (speaker?) connection. Putting an Ohmmeter across the middle and purple connections yields about 50 Ohms which I believe is BLI's Paragon 2 speaker setup.

Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure this is the same unit I sent to BLI for repair a couple of years ago, and they replaced the speaker (initially they sent me a replacement booard and that wasn't the problem). The new speaker tested okay, but I didn't run it much or at all; working on the layout. With all the weight I added, I'm reluctant to send it back to BLI, but it's good to know the tungsten disk is unlikely to be the problem. I didn't realize it wasn't magnetic; good to know. A friend suggested the metal weight might have messed up the magnetic field, not realizing tungsten is non magnetic.
Thoughts?
Otto
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 08:19:49 PM by Cajonpassfan »

peteski

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Re: Testing Speakers
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2018, 10:46:13 PM »
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Waste of time? I actually enjoy solving this type of problem in my hobbies - but we are all different.  :D

Also, before someone corrects me, tungsten is paramagnetic, but in this case it doesn't matter much - it still shouldn't affect the speaker's functionality.  I had no idea you were discussing a BLI decoder (the thread started as a generic speaker test question). So yes, 50 ohms(not 8 ohms) sounds like correct value for those speakers.  The solder joints in the photo attached to your post don't look all that bad and the wires soldered to the speaker are gray and black!

What kind of glue did you use to attach those tungsten disks?  Is it possible that some liquid adhesive soaked through the black non-woven grille in the back of the speaker and contacted the speaker cone?  Maybe the speakers are connected in series?  I haven not done much work on BLI locos (yet).  I have some E units and the Centipede set. I took that one apart and it is a rats-nest of wires.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 10:48:52 PM by peteski »
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jdcolombo

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Re: Testing Speakers
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2018, 11:26:18 PM »
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Hmmm.

Seems to be some serious thread drift here . . .

The speakers used by BLI for the Paragon 2 decoders are 50 ohms.  Like Pete, I doubt that a tungsten disk on top would lead to failure.  Sometimes speakers die.  Sometimes audio amps on decoders also die for no particular reason.

My own experience with the Paragon 2 decoder in BLI's PA's was not a happy one.  I didn't think the sound was very good; found the programming of the decoder inscrutable and vastly different from everything else I had on my layout.  So I replaced the decoder with an ESU LokSound and the speaker with an 11x15mm.  Yeah, I know - now I have a useless sound decoder (the Paragon) that I paid for when buying the PA's.  But the end result made me much happier.  The conversion really isn't that hard to do - there's lots of space in there.

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=38618.0

John C.

Cajonpassfan

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Re: Testing Speakers
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2018, 08:24:59 PM »
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Hmmm.

Seems to be some serious thread drift here . . .

The speakers used by BLI for the Paragon 2 decoders are 50 ohms.  Like Pete, I doubt that a tungsten disk on top would lead to failure.  Sometimes speakers die.  Sometimes audio amps on decoders also die for no particular reason.

My own experience with the Paragon 2 decoder in BLI's PA's was not a happy one.  I didn't think the sound was very good; found the programming of the decoder inscrutable and vastly different from everything else I had on my layout.  So I replaced the decoder with an ESU LokSound and the speaker with an 11x15mm.  Yeah, I know - now I have a useless sound decoder (the Paragon) that I paid for when buying the PA's.  But the end result made me much happier.  The conversion really isn't that hard to do - there's lots of space in there.

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=38618.0

John C.

John, no argument about the ESU's. But, a big BUT. Hear me out:
I have nine of these pups, I find the programming easy, and the sound pretty good (Paragon 3 rocks, imho). And I like the ability to "crank up" the sound (F8 double).  But the real reason: there are about sixty other DC locos awaiting conversion to DCC and sound. I'd rather spend money and effort on those than ripping out decoders out of these units that are already equipped. But that's just me...😜
Otto

jdcolombo

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Re: Testing Speakers
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2018, 10:57:02 PM »
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John, no argument about the ESU's. But, a big BUT. Hear me out:
I have nine of these pups, I find the programming easy, and the sound pretty good (Paragon 3 rocks, imho). And I like the ability to "crank up" the sound (F8 double).  But the real reason: there are about sixty other DC locos awaiting conversion to DCC and sound. I'd rather spend money and effort on those than ripping out decoders out of these units that are already equipped. But that's just me...😜
Otto

Yeah, I get it.  My fleet is done; I've converted everything over to ESU decoders, all Loksound for the steam, and 2/3 LokSound, 1/3 LokPilot for the diesels.  But it was a long and expensive process.  The PA's came at the very end, and it was partly because I liked ESU's Alco sound better, but mostly because I just wanted the simplicity of dealing with ONE brand of decoder.  My days of mixing Lenz, TCS, ESU, Zimo, et. al. are over.  The operational fleet is now all ESU and it just makes life simpler.

John

Cajonpassfan

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Re: Testing Speakers
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2018, 05:52:16 PM »
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[ Guests cannot view attachments ] Bump...
Hope no one minds me resurrecting this. I finally found the time (and improved attitude) to look into my BLI PA sound problem. Tested the speaker with an ohmmeter, got a reading and a little crackle, good. Thanks for the suggestion.

Put the loco back on the track, with shell off. Applied power, lights on, engine moved slowly, then stalled on a dead frog. I touched it (and the board) with two fingers and it came back to life, this time WITH SOUND. Touched the board again, no sound. Can't seem to be able to recreate the coming back to life part. But still, that means the board is good and so is the speaker, right? Apparently a bad connection somewhere...?

At this point I have the board out and the two multi-pin connectors disconnected. Wiggling wires and applying CRC cleaner does nothing. At this point I'd like to remove the two speaker wires (purple and black on left in photo) from the connector I'm not sure I understand how that works. Do I just yank them out, clip them back, and shove them back in? I'm not familiar with this type of connector and don't want to damage anything...
Help/advice appreciated.
Otto
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 05:59:59 PM by Cajonpassfan »

Cajonpassfan

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Re: Testing Speakers
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2018, 06:46:32 PM »
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Never mind, I found the problem. It was a cold joint at the speaker, see below. I believe this was the engine I sent back to BLI for repair a couple of years ago with a failed speaker. It came back working fine, and I didn't bother opening her up, but obviously whoever fixed it didn't get the joint hot enough. It works like a charm now, I should have resoldered the joints when I first had the problem  :facepalm:
And yea, it is a 50 Ohm speaker married to a Paragon 2 decoder, so I'm stuck with it. Still, sounds pretty good in my AbA set, with two sound units running. I wonder if the next release will have Paragon 3's?
Otto K.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 06:53:26 PM by Cajonpassfan »

peteski

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Re: Testing Speakers
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2018, 02:19:34 AM »
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Nice job troubleshooting Otto!

As far as those white multi-pin connectors go, the wire is crimped into the pins. Then those metal pins are snapped into the white housing.  They are not designed to ever be removed again, but if you need to, you can pull them out from the back (wire side) of the connector. To do that you would first have to pull up the white plastic tab which locks against the barb on the metal pin, then pull back on the wire to pull out the pin.  It is one of those things you needs 3 hands for, but doable.  :D  Some of the white connectors use plastic which is robust enough for you to lift the plastic finger up enough to distort it so it stays up. That allows you to remove the metal pin. Then you can push the plastic finger back down so it will re-lock the in when it is inserted back.
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Cajonpassfan

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Re: Testing Speakers
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2018, 11:06:22 AM »
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Thanks for the explanation, Pete.
Turns out I don't need to pull the wires, but will file advice for future use.
This has been an informative thread for me, even if I did make it drift a bit :P
Otto

carlso

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Re: Testing Speakers
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2018, 03:11:43 PM »
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Informative for all of us Otto. Thanks for starting the thread.

Carl
Carl Sowell
El Paso, Texas

Cajonpassfan

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Re: Testing Speakers
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2018, 05:27:23 PM »
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Lol Carl, but I didn't ...