Post-Bestine Issue

[Jbub]

I've haven't soaked anything in bestine yet but I will  considering the evidence given by all those who do. IIRC the only time I've read of someone softening fud or fxd in bestine was after a week long soak. Kind of excessive imo. Speaking of bestine. Weather do you find the stuff?

[C855B]

... Speaking of bestine. Weather do you find the stuff?

Any serious art supply store - not Michael's or Hobby Lobby. If you have a Dick Blick's nearby you're good.

[BCR751]

I can say with 100% confidence your parts were sticky before you soaked them.
Mine sure were.

Yup, mine definitely were as well.  I think Shapeways is in denial.

Doug

[DKS]

I think Shapeways is in denial.

Shapeways is doing CYA control.

[bbussey]

Well, I sent Shapeways a note with a photo of the affected part asking for a reprint and this is their reply:

"We highly discourage using Bestine on Fine Detail Plastic material. Bestine is a chemical that actually disolves the material, the longer you soak it, the more sticky and soft the Fine Detail Plastic gets since it's disolving.
Models are cured during the printing process already but are cleaned with oil, this could cause the model to feel like its uncured.

I recommend using soap to clean the model or bestine for not longer than a minute to dry out the material."

So, I guess I'm S.O.L. for getting a reprinted part and maybe we should all re-think the Bestine soak.  I think @peteski get it right in his reply.

Doug

They are full of crap. Heptane dissolves wax and grease, it doesn’t affect plastics or resins. If that were the case, the entire surface would be tacky, not just one area of the model.

[peteski]

They are full of crap. Heptane dissolves wax and grease, it doesn’t affect plastics or resins. If that were the case, the entire surface would be tacky, not just one area of the model.

And besides. even is if dissolved the plastic (like liquid cement for polystyrene dissolves and welds polystyrene), the plastic would harden again after the solvent (Heptane) evaporated.  Yes, what Shapeways said is bunch of crap.

I guess you need not to mention Heptane when contacting them for replacement.    Just say that you used olive oil bath followed by warm water and Dawn dishwashing detergent.

[chicken45]

And besides. even is if dissolved the plastic (like liquid cement for polystyrene dissolves and welds polystyrene), the plastic would harden again after the solvent (Heptane) evaporated.  Yes, what Shapeways said is bunch of crap.

I guess you need not to mention Heptane when contacting them for replacement.    Just say that you used olive oil bath followed by warm water and Dawn dishwashing detergent.

Followed by a nice tanning session outside and facial at the salon!

[Lemosteam]

They are blaming you.  What a bunch of crap.

I have begun measuring and inspecting their prints immediately upon receipt, and document any issues right ou8t of the bag and file the complaint on the spot.

Less information to them is MORE! There is no need to tell them anything other than what you observed with their part.

ALSO, I have taken a 900 degree soldering iron to FUD and FED- it does not melt and certainly does not dissolve in bestine.

[nkalanaga]

It doesn't melt at 900 degrees?  I wonder what it really is, chemically?

[Lemosteam]

Keep in mind, I think these properties and materials are for the raw material before printing, at least I could not find and data for post curing.

https://static1.sw-cdn.net/files/cms/materials/Fine%20Detail%20Plastic%20Data%20Sheet%20-%202.pdf

https://www.shapeways.com/rrstatic/material_docs/msds-frosted.pdf

I was experimenting with an attachment/assembly technique for one of my kits, like melting a pin inside a shell to attach a dome, and I could not get the pin to melt,  it would only turn brown.

I have poured molten lead into a cold print with no ill effects to the part, other than embrittlement and discoloration.

I think once the laser cures the material it is very much like glass, only less shatter proof due to the internal latticework structure that is trapped inside the walls.

[BCR751]

Just received an email from Shapeways.  They "modified" their original reply and now say that "maybe Bestine isn't as detrimental as we first thought".  They also informed me they are doing a reprint of the bad part.  In re-reading the initial response, I don't the the agent had sufficient knowledge of the process to make that statement.  Once he referred my complaint to the production staff, things changed. 

In the final analysis, it's good to check the printed parts right away and, if they are considered substandard, let Shapeways know immediately.  With the knowledge available on this group regarding the 3D process, I don't think there would be much argument as to getting a part re-printed.  Thanks to all who responded to my issue.  It certainly did help.

Doug

[Lemosteam]

Glad it all came to a positive resolution!

Even with all of the issues I have encountered, their customer service is typically outstanding, I think that is why their initial response was so surprising.

[BCR751]

Here we go again.  I just received the reprint from the order that had the non-cured resin issue.  Looks like they didn't get the memo.  The dark areas are very sticky after a 24hr Bestine soak and a scrubbing with soap and warm water.  I've sent the photos to Shapeways.  We"ll see what they come back with.  Damn, this is getting frustrating.

Doug

[BCOL 747]

Doug

I have the exact same part with the exact same issue. I was going to ask for a reprint as well, but after all the problems you have been having.....

Would you be so kind to contact me off line and perhaps we can put a "class action" suit topgether. LOL!

Chris

[carlso]

 You all may find this interesting or amusing.

I just received an item printed in "Smoothest Fine Detail Plastic", it was a bit pricey but I wanted to check out this media that I had no experience with. It looked real good and definitely did not look like a track team ran over it with cleats on. That has been my experience with FUD. So, it looked good and was not opaque and I sent an e-mail to Shapeways customer service and asked if I should clean it in Bestine or something else. I did get a prompt reply from a young lady and she said I should wash in warm dishwasher soap and let soak for up to 6 hours. If that does not seem to work I could put it in acetone for no more than approx. 6 minutes and then wash in hot soapy water. I did not try that as I am skeptic about using acetone. Might be OK ? ? ?

I did not care for the acetone idea but used hot Dawn/water and let soak for several hours. It did not look any different from the beginning but I painted it anyway and so far so good. It never felt oily or soft. Maybe it is the material used ?

Carl