UP844 Involved in Fatal Accident

[nkalanaga]

No, most people probably don't know that the train is wider than the tie.  Most people wouldn't have any reason to know that, although most people also wouldn't want to stand that close to a large, noisy, moving object either.  That's one of the reasons station platforms often have a painted line to show where NOT to stand.

[cv_acr]

Saw it too and was thinking the same thing. Clearly not a regular "foamer" as most are smart enough to at least stay off the ties where it appeared to me she was standing.  Sad day for sure.

"most of us" maybe... but I've known some foamers who get pretty darn close for comfort...

[C855B]

From his picture of the accident it looks like she was standing on the edge of the ties or just to the side of them; it’s a still shot from a drone cam and rather far away so it’s a touch blurry. It looks like she probably got struck by the stairs on the side of locomotive (he didn’t post the picture of the actual strike, just the right before and right after shot).

Comments elsewhere indicate she was standing still taking a video of the approach with her phone, evidently concentrating on her phone.

And I knew Bob would have something to say. From trainorders.com:

I remember a number of times that Jack hollered across the cab to me for cylinder cocks and I would always oblige. Then he had some words of wisdom for the person as we passed them. Jack and I worked pretty good as partners getting over the railroad.

Procedure was to open the cocks to "encourage" the too-close to back off. Now that this process has been documented by experts, whether Ed did this is going to be discussed by lawyers, likely for several years.

[p51]

"most of us" maybe... but I've known some foamers who get pretty darn close for comfort...

It's not just trains that people get too close to.
People stand right next to the road on European rally races (sometimes even in the road), with cars zipping past at speeds that 844 could never attain. And yes, a few are hit and killed every year. Same with the Tour De France, as they're going highway speeds off those mountains. People get hit, then, too. You can easily find plenty of videos showing each.

I am reminded of something I saw from a guy who came with me and my best friend when we were chasing N&W 611 through Florida in the late 1980s (I was a teen, Mark was in his 20s and my pal Bob was in his early 30s. Bob and I had been around a lot of trains, but Mark hadn't).
 We were at the Suwannee River bridge at Fargo, Georgia, waiting on 611 on a NS run to Valdosta, a couple of hours early. This is where they usually did the photo run by on those runs, so we knew we could get ahead of the train from there after getting our photos. Mark was not a rail fan but he knew photography and didn't want to be left behind for the day. He didn't want to risk getting in the way of Bob and me, so he went to the other side of the tracks. Bob and I used a large signal box as a base to shoot from.
Soon, a NS freight came across the long bridge. Bob and I snapped our shots, and then we noticed that the freight was blowing for the grade crossing behind us, only the engine's horns were not giving the normal signal for that. The engineer was leaning on the horn and we had no idea why. Bob later swore he heard a muffled cry nearby as the six-axle EMD units roared past at speed.
After the train cleared, we saw Mark on the other side of the tracks, much more pale the normal with a dazed look. When Bob asked Mark what had happened, Mark said, "I got the train in my view finder and it just kept getting bigger and BIGGER…" Realizing he must have been in the open near the tracks, we asked where he had been standing.
He pointed straight down, at the end of the ties!  Had he not jumped out of the way, that EMD would have been wearing a Mark-colored smear on its pilot when they got into Valdosta! We noticed that Mark was well clear of the tracks for the rest of the day, having by then realized he almost got creamed by a diesel going at mainline speeds. I recently found the negative I shot of that train, which I really should get a good print of to remind me of that day.

[Hyperion]

There's video footage out there.   I won't link it here as I'm unsure how it would be taken.  It's a brutal but not at all gruesome view of a person (far/blurry enough to not even make out their sex) standing still right on the ties edge clipped by the very edge of the 844's smoke deflector (fireman's side) and violently flung aside.

Aside from obviously being too close, I would imagine that the photographer simply did not expect the train to close on them that quickly.   In the video the train is going much, much faster than I was expecting to see it going -- I'd estimate ~45-50mph.   They made no attempt to move even as it got right on them.   I imagine they were trying to zoom-out the phone to keep it in frame without realizing where they were and that the reason they couldn't keep it in-frame was because it was going so fast.

[learmoia]

That cell phone video would make a effective operation lifesaver add..

~Ian

[Englewood]

As someone who sits in the cab for a living...

The amount of stupidity in the world is truly astounding. I'd estimate a car going around the gates about 20% of the time. Trucks will sit on the tracks forgetting that we are waaay bigger than they are. People walking down the tracks or right next to them. I can't count how many times someone has lost their life because they were crossing thru a train. Or someone who was hit walking down the middle of the tracks with the music in their earphones so loud they didn't hear the train's horn. And foamers, well, you'd think they'd know better. But I've seen people standing too close to the tracks when we blow by at 60mph with their face buried in a camera. Or trespassing. I see that so much. And yes, we do report trespassers, even if I know you. I've been on a few of the UP' s and NS's heritage power, and the foamers go absolutely nuts. Speeding, running red lights and almost causing accidents just to keep up. I remember sitting in the yard once on the Wabash heritage engine and a group of guys waited a couple of hours for a train next to us to clear so they could get pictures. I'm not exaggerating when I say they looked like a bunch of 5 year old girls who'd gotton a whole herd of sparkly unicorns for Christmas. They were jumping and hollering and high-fiving each other. And yes, we were making fun of them.
Please guys, please stay back. 20-30 feet would be great. That way we don't have to look out the window afraid to see a bloody smudge on the side of the tracks.

[Jbub]

I saw another video on YouTube that was shot down the track from the incident. It was the ground camera footage for the drone operator that caught the incident. After the engine stopped and blew off excess steam from going into emergency you see a crew member get out and inspect the front of the engine. You could tell he was shaken by what he witnessed

[nkalanaga]

"Please guys, please stay back. 20-30 feet would be great."

A rule of thumb from the BN in the early 70s was 20 feet from the end of the tie + 1 foot per mile-per-hour.  The initial 20 feet was in case the train turns over while sitting still, which, weird as it may sound, has happened, especially on poorly maintained yard tracks.  If setting up for photography, and you don't know how fast the train will be going, assume the speed limit.  So, for a train going 45-50 mph, stay 65 to 70 feet from the end of the tie.  It isn't just the train, or a derailment, you need to watch for.  Thrown ballast, loose cargo (coal, rock, etc), loose trailing tie-down straps, etc can get you, even if you're clear of the train itself.

[John]

"Please guys, please stay back. 20-30 feet would be great."

A rule of thumb from the BN in the early 70s was 20 feet from the end of the tie + 1 foot per mile-per-hour.  The initial 20 feet was in case the train turns over while sitting still, which, weird as it may sound, has happened, especially on poorly maintained yard tracks.  If setting up for photography, and you don't know how fast the train will be going, assume the speed limit.  So, for a train going 45-50 mph, stay 65 to 70 feet from the end of the tie.  It isn't just the train, or a derailment, you need to watch for.  Thrown ballast, loose cargo (coal, rock, etc), loose trailing tie-down straps, etc can get you, even if you're clear of the train itself.

This is one reason I stopped going to St Dennis in Baltimore ... all the guys that hang out on the station platform are no more than a few feet away from a loose or shifted load taking their heads off

https://www.flickr.com/photos/71909033@N02/27346917238

[Maletrain]

You probably aren't going to get photographers to stand at least 70' from the ends of ties.  Looking at B&O engineering drawings, the signal towers are shown only 10' or 13' from the gauge line, and station buildings are shown 16' back from the platform edge, which is 2'6" from the gauge line.  So, clearly the railroads thought those distances were sufficient.  Real people who think about it will probably take their distance guidance from those lines painted on station platforms, if they have that experience, or from the distance from the crossing gate arms, where cars are stopped to await passages of trains.

I think the real problem is lack of " situational awareness" on the parts of people engrossed in manipulating the human-interface of the gadgets they are using.  There are all sorts of videos of people looking at their cell phones while walking into swimming pools, traffic, etc., not to mention walking into other people.

Adding the change in perspective that comes from using a viewfinder that zooms, taking photos can be a real trap.  Even before the digital age, I personally had a close call with a bull moose while using a big zoom lens.  I first saw the moose as part of a pretty scenic shot at the far end of a swamp, and put on a zoom telephoto to get a closer shot.  As it came closer, I zoomed out to keep it all in-frame.  At one point, I needed to stop and take out my 2x teleconverter.  When I eventually was not able to get the moose's full rack in my frame because I could not zoom out farther, I looked over the top of the camera, then grabbed the tripod and hustled out of the way as a half-ton bull moose stepped out of the swamp and dripped water and lily pads right where I had been standing.  I am glad the mooses don't move as fast as trains!

But, it is up to the photographers to understand the risks they take and to manage their activities accordingly.  Getting hit by a train that a photographer is clearly aware of is not the fault of the railroad or train crew.  There should be no liability for the railroad from this incident.

[CBQ Fan]

Clearly she was uneducated about how to be safe around trains.  Based on where she was standing I wonder if she assumed that the oncoming train was located on right side tracks because of the direction it was traveling. Assuming it would run just like a car, on the right side of the road.  As we here know this not the always the case.  Mainline vs siding. Left hand running or running either direction isn’t uncommon.

[nkalanaga]

Maletrain:  You're right, the railroads put structures much closer to the tracks, and in many cases, workers HAVE to be close to do their jobs.  Handing up train orders was one example.  The BN guidelines were for people who didn't have to be next to the train, and were intended to ensure personal safety.  Painted lines on a platform are safe - if nothing goes wrong.  Obviously, it's impractical to put the station platform 70 feet from the tracks! 

On the other hand, at least on most freight railroads, it's assumed that people won't be standing on the platforms unless there's a passenger train due soon, so 50+ mph freight trains shouldn't be blowing by a waiting crowd.  Someplace like the Northeast Corridor, that isn't a safe assumption, and one needs to be aware of trains, even if standing behind the lines.