Author Topic: Briggs Models MLW S13 review and build thread.  (Read 14005 times)

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craigolio1

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Re: Briggs Models MLW S13 review and build thread.
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2018, 04:13:15 PM »
0
I looked at using the Bachman S chassis as a base for this loco when Jeff and I were discussing it and something about it made it not a good choice. Jeff perhaps you can remind me of what that was?  The LL/Walthers SW locos are easy to find, cheap, and good runners.

I got the chance to test my chassis today and after all of the assembly done it works! Which means I can move onto the body.

For final wiring I trimmed all the wires so they wouldn’t be in the way of a future decoder. But then they were too short twist together, so I made a little loop out of magnet wire and tied them together so I could solder. It worked well.


briggsmodels

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Re: Briggs Models MLW S13 review and build thread.
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2018, 07:54:02 PM »
+1
I couldn't use the S chassis for the S13 because of the high exposed frame, the Atlas deck is solid metal and the Bachmann frame has a metal plate underneath it. For an S6 the Bachmann is ideal, because I can make a shell only woth etched details to fit the complete mechanism.

mmagliaro

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Re: Briggs Models MLW S13 revue and (eventual) build thread.
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2018, 09:06:32 PM »
+1
I have never soldered etched parts before; any special materials or techniques different from electrical soldering?  One would obviously have to use a very fine tip and some fine solder.  Any issues getting solder to flow onto the parts?  I guess these are in my future if an M-630W is coming . . . . .

Tim

The rosin-based electronics flux (like the stuff Radio Shack used to sell in a white jar with a screw cap) works wonderfully on etched brass parts.  A little drop at the joint and then the solder flows in like water.  You can use just a tiny amount of solder, too, and it will make a strong joint, which makes for very neat joints that don't need much filing or other cleanup afterward.  And it is not acid-based so it's very safe to use.

Beyond that, your other assumptions about using a very fine point tip and very fine solder are spot on.  I would also suggest some silver-bearing solder (not "silver solder", but silver bearing solder.  The joints are significantly stronger.

craigolio1

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Re: Briggs Models MLW S13 revue and (eventual) build thread.
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2018, 10:12:24 PM »
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The rosin-based electronics flux (like the stuff Radio Shack used to sell in a white jar with a screw cap) works wonderfully on etched brass parts.  A little drop at the joint and then the solder flows in like water.  You can use just a tiny amount of solder, too, and it will make a strong joint, which makes for very neat joints that don't need much filing or other cleanup afterward.  And it is not acid-based so it's very safe to use.

Beyond that, your other assumptions about using a very fine point tip and very fine solder are spot on.  I would also suggest some silver-bearing solder (not "silver solder", but silver bearing solder.  The joints are significantly stronger.

Thanks for that info. I’m going to get some liquid rosin flux and some silver bearing solder. Would that be labeled clearly on the solder?

Craig.

Edit:  I Googled silver bearing solder and found silver bearing paste solder in a syringe. A metal powder/flux mixture of some kind. What do you think of that for applying a small precision amount to the parts, and then applying heat? It’s not something I’ve ever heard of before but it sound ideal.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 10:32:50 PM by craigolio1 »

craigolio1

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Re: Briggs Models MLW S13 review and build thread.
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2018, 10:41:44 PM »
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I couldn't use the S chassis for the S13 because of the high exposed frame, the Atlas deck is solid metal and the Bachmann frame has a metal plate underneath it. For an S6 the Bachmann is ideal, because I can make a shell only woth etched details to fit the complete mechanism.

Wow, yes that really is ideal.

mmagliaro

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Re: Briggs Models MLW S13 review and build thread.
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2018, 10:42:02 PM »
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I've never tried those pastes that have the flux built in.  Even regular solder has a flux core.  That's why you can actually make a joint without adding flux.  As the flux in the core melts, it helps conduct the heat into the joint so the solder flows.

What we are talking about is, therefore, adding "extra" flux before applying the solder, to help the solder flow faster and better.

Yes, silver bearing solder will always be called exactly that.

This one from Radio Shack is a great one, I think:
https://www.radioshack.com/products/radioshack-1oz-silver-sdr015

It's only .015" diameter, and that's what you want.    Thin, thin, THIN.
Unforatunately, it's listed as "out of stock" and I don't know if Radio Shack will ever get more

Here's one that's close:
https://www.parts-express.com/kester-pocket-pack-silver-solder-0020-035-oz-tube--370-054
They unfortunately call it "silver solder", but if you look at the description, it is, in fact,
62% tin 36% lead 2% silver. 0.020" diameter solder.

So it's Sn62/Pb36/Ag2 

rodsup9000

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Re: Briggs Models MLW S13 review and build thread.
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2018, 10:44:20 PM »
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 https://www.radioshack.com/products/silver-bearing-solder
 
This is what I use, but it is out of stock. I bought up 3 rolls when they announced the one of the last round of store closings.

 Here is what I found that is the same from amazon.

  https://www.amazon.com/Kester-83-7145-0415-Pocket-Silver-0-35oz/dp/B01FV2525E/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_328_tr_t_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=FQMG1S56Z2A6WZ5JQZPT
Rodney

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philippe.whyte

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Re: Briggs Models MLW S13 review and build thread.
« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2018, 11:51:30 PM »
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Hi Craig,

Just wanted to say thank you for sharing your experiences with this kit.  It's looking great so far!  I just got my two kits from Jeff in the mail yesterday and I'm looking forward to putting them together but that may not be for a while (other projects to finish first, of course).  Your notes and advice will come in very handy.

I presume you will finish these two in BCR paint?  Have you decided which units you will do?

Philippe
Modelling BC Rail, North Vancouver, ca. 1987
Modelling BC Rail ca. 1987
North Vancouver, BC

craigolio1

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Re: Briggs Models MLW S13 review and build thread.
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2018, 06:05:54 AM »
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Hi Craig,

Just wanted to say thank you for sharing your experiences with this kit.  It's looking great so far!  I just got my two kits from Jeff in the mail yesterday and I'm looking forward to putting them together but that may not be for a while (other projects to finish first, of course).  Your notes and advice will come in very handy.

I presume you will finish these two in BCR paint?  Have you decided which units you will do?

Philippe
Modelling BC Rail, North Vancouver, ca. 1987

 Thanks guys for all of the advice on soldering. I’ve had good luck up to now but getting some of these products you talk about will only make things better for me.

Phillipe, I plan to model 502 and 503.

BCR 570

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Re: Briggs Models MLW S13 review and build thread.
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2018, 12:07:11 PM »
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Craig:

The fine conical tip I as referring to is Weller's ST-7, as opposed to the ST-2 chisel tip.  I have used the chisel tip for heat transfer to larger surfaces such as bus wire to feeder wire connections, and the finer ST-7 for things like soldering trackwork.  For solder I use the SP-0003 fine rosin core solder sold by Fast Tracks, which is made in Canada.

My friend Doug Hicks, who was an electronics technician in BCR's radio shop for many years, does not use flux when soldering, and I have now learned to solder without it which is cleaner.  You do have to ensure that your iron is sufficiently clean and hot.

Looking forward to seeing the carbody go together.

Tim
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peteski

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Re: Briggs Models MLW S13 review and build thread.
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2018, 01:44:04 PM »
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My friend Doug Hicks, who was an electronics technician in BCR's radio shop for many years, does not use flux when soldering, and I have now learned to solder without it which is cleaner.  You do have to ensure that your iron is sufficiently clean and hot.


And an electronic tech. myself (and an electronic hobbyist) I am surprised that he can successfully solder without *ANY* flux.  Or do you mean that he/you use solder with a flux in its core (rosin-core solder which is the standard electronics solder) and just don't use any additional flux?  I have never seen any electronics tech. using a solid solder where there is no flux in the core.  Solid solder is sold for trades such as plumbing and stain glass making, but those are thicker diameter solders (and in those trades it is expected for flux to be applied separately). All the smaller diameter solder wire I have ever used for electronics work has a flux core.  At least in my experience.

If you are really using solid solder (with no flux core), how do you get the molten solder to wet the soldered surfaces? Then ho do you achieve a smooth/shiny solder joint?  Without flux solder just cakes and results in rough solder joints.
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BCR751

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Re: Briggs Models MLW S13 review and build thread.
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2018, 03:29:58 PM »
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As I mentioned previously, flux should only be used when soldering brass or some derivative thereof.  Unless it is non-acid flux, it should never be used on electronic parts or, if it is, the parts should be thoroughly washed after soldering.  Sure, you can use just the rosin core solder to do brass, no problem.  However, it is much easier and faster to apply a small  amount of paste flux to the item and then apply the solder and heat simultaneously.  Both methods work so use whatever method moves your needle.  There's no "wrong answer" here.

Doug

peteski

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Re: Briggs Models MLW S13 review and build thread.
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2018, 05:38:38 PM »
-1
As I mentioned previously, flux should only be used when soldering brass or some derivative thereof.  Unless it is non-acid flux, it should never be used on electronic parts or, if it is, the parts should be thoroughly washed after soldering. 

While I agree with your statement, you seem to be contradicting yourself by not including the  word "acid" in the first sentence.  There are plenty of non-caustic fluxes which can be safely used on electronic/electrical and non-electrical parts.
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craigolio1

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Re: Briggs Models MLW S13 review and build thread.
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2018, 05:53:56 PM »
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As I mentioned previously, flux should only be used when soldering brass or some derivative thereof.  Unless it is non-acid flux, it should never be used on electronic parts or, if it is, the parts should be thoroughly washed after soldering.  Sure, you can use just the rosin core solder to do brass, no problem.  However, it is much easier and faster to apply a small  amount of paste flux to the item and then apply the solder and heat simultaneously.  Both methods work so use whatever method moves your needle.  There's no "wrong answer" here.

Doug

The paste I use is not an acid flux. I only use that for plumbing. But I still want to get the liquid and I think I’ll try and find some of the solder paste. I love the idea of pre-applying just the right amount on a detail part.

BCR751

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Re: Briggs Models MLW S13 review and build thread.
« Reply #44 on: August 03, 2018, 11:51:30 AM »
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While I agree with your statement, you seem to be contradicting yourself by not including the  word "acid" in the first sentence.  There are plenty of non-caustic fluxes which can be safely used on electronic/electrical and non-electrical parts.

A glaring omission.  I sit corrected.

Doug