Author Topic: Atlas buys Walthers tooling  (Read 13968 times)

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brokemoto

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Re: Atlas buys Walthers tooling
« Reply #120 on: June 26, 2018, 12:30:00 PM »
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I had heard that they originally had WM on the production list, but since they were producing A-B sets and the WM never had B-units, that they switched to L&N after production had started once they were clued in to the error. I don't think it's a coincidence that they picked an L&N scheme that was black and gold also, almost as if they already had the shells painted black....


That would make sense, although the plastic frame production did have B-units:  dummies.  LL simply did not issue any plastic frame dummy Bs for the WM.  Still, if they had ordered production with WM Bs and had  found out about the gaffe mid-production, and, it was still at a point where they could do something about it, your theory makes sense.  It would not have made all that sense to have a bunch of useless B-units in the warehouse. 

In fact, in my early days of N scale, I learned quickly that if you want to pee-yo a train vendor, take the As but not the Bs.  My first N scale pike was too small for trains that would justify and A-B pair, so As were the only cab units in which I was interested.  I wound up taking more than a few Bs that I could not use, at the time.  Subsequently, of course, I did find a use for Bs when I built a larger pike.  I had to do some marathon break-in runs of Bs so that I could run them with already well-broken-in As,

It really was not that big a deal to adapt the plastic frame shells to the metal frame chassis.  In fact, I wound up stripping a pair of shells and doing #301 and #302.  I even did the shorter wings on whichever one it was that had them,

The plastic frame BL-2s can adapt, as well.  They did issue the metal frame BL-2s in both numbers; one in fireball and one in speed.  My era demands fireball for
BL-2s  I did buy the one metal frame fireball BL-2 that LL did issue.  Later, someone had a sale on B&As, so I bought one and adapted my plastic frame fireball shell to it (after I changed the number, which is not hard on those).

Another thing that is funny is that the LL BL-2s have about the same throttle response as the IM F-7s.  As it was WM practice to run BL-2s on the point in MU and coupled to a different EMD product, you can actually run them in the manner that WM did.  The roads that had BL-2s used to complain about stress cracks in the frames, so I suspect that this might have been the reason that WM ran them only on the point and with a different Electro-Motive product.

B&M's BL-2s did not have MU hoses.  B&M ordered them for use in Boston commuter work, so there was no need for MU hoses.  I do not know what it did with them after it discontinued enough passenger trains with the result that the RDCs could handle everything except the Boston-Portland and Boston-Albany (trackage rights from Troy to Albany) trains.  For that reason, I am unaware of any complaints from B&M crews or shop men about stress cracks on theirs.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 12:31:39 PM by brokemoto »

Point353

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Re: Atlas buys Walthers tooling
« Reply #121 on: June 26, 2018, 01:19:59 PM »
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B&M's BL-2s did not have MU hoses.  B&M ordered them for use in Boston commuter work, so there was no need for MU hoses.  I do not know what it did with them after it discontinued enough passenger trains with the result that the RDCs could handle everything except the Boston-Portland and Boston-Albany (trackage rights from Troy to Albany) trains.  For that reason, I am unaware of any complaints from B&M crews or shop men about stress cracks on theirs.
eBay listing for a slide of B&M BL2 1553 at Groveton, NH in 1952.
Unit was assigned to the Groveton-Woodsville local.
Perhaps the other B&M BL2 locos saw similar use.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIG-SLIDE-Boston-amp-Maine-BL2-1553-just-replaced-a-2-8-0-Groveton-Original-Kod-/162993438739

garethashenden

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Re: Atlas buys Walthers tooling
« Reply #122 on: June 26, 2018, 01:47:50 PM »
+1
eBay listing for a slide of B&M BL2 1553 at Groveton, NH in 1952.
Unit was assigned to the Groveton-Woodsville local.
Perhaps the other B&M BL2 locos saw similar use.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIG-SLIDE-Boston-amp-Maine-BL2-1553-just-replaced-a-2-8-0-Groveton-Original-Kod-/162993438739

Yup. They were used for locals for a few years after they were displaced by the Budd cars. They went back to EMD in 1961 as trade-ins on the GP18s. Interestingly, the four BL2s and one F2 that went as trade-ins are why five of the six B&M GP-18s have four small fans, unlike the more common two large fans.

nscalbitz

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Re: Atlas buys Walthers tooling
« Reply #123 on: July 03, 2018, 12:30:46 AM »
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The old LL 100Ton hopper isn't worth resurrecting in my opinion (I have a few lying around)

Having just begun the process of preparing excess stock for sale, I've come across a single one example (the B&O) amongst a bunch of Atlas models coal and covered hoppers, and find the exterior appearance if you refer to these - http://www.spookshow.net/freight/ll100hopper.html , "...indistinguishable from Atlas models". There is some slight weirdness on the ends, and the subframe is differently weighted, but enough.

I've a couple of box packs for mid-western roads as counter-running train consists.
Cheers d

nscalbitz

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Re: Atlas buys Walthers tooling
« Reply #124 on: July 03, 2018, 01:19:21 AM »
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It does have a better interior than the Atlas car, and the stirrups and ladders are much better in my opinion. I think the side panel/rib spacing is more accurate too, so there's some good parts.
The "shadow" you can see on the outside of the bays is not good, and the wierd underframe  :-X

As to dimensions, its almost exact. Details, same.
A fraction of a millimetre shorter, because the Atlas cars have a more pronounced and longer/wider/thicker top chord. The Ribs are exactly the same dimensions- an exact copy. What is larger are the 'rivit lines', which I assume is your objection. To me they add to the detail on an otherwise dour model (until weathering).
But no use defending the indefensible.
Atlas won't need to retool them. Will they ever 'rebrand' the 90 ton nomenclature to 100T?
d
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 01:21:55 AM by nscalbitz »

nkalanaga

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Re: Atlas buys Walthers tooling
« Reply #125 on: July 03, 2018, 01:38:00 AM »
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I doubt it.  By now, everyone knows which car their "90 ton" hopper is, so changing the name would be confusing.

Now, if they started making them with 100-ton trucks, then renamed them, that would be good marketing.  It really would be a "new", or at least improved, model, and would need to be distinguished from the older ones.
N Kalanaga
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up1950s

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Re: Atlas buys Walthers tooling
« Reply #126 on: July 03, 2018, 02:48:23 AM »
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I wonder if they purchased the naming rights.   They could simply call it "Atlas-Life Like", to distinguish the product instead of "Trainman".


I have seen advertisements for ATLAS BLMA . I thought the nod gave respect and as well an expectation of sameness the buyer would have .

Now if Atlas combines the Life-Like parts with theirs , what would be that mutts / mutations ( I never put those 2 words to thought before ) name . Atlas Life-Like mutt ? Sounds kind of wordy to me . But I think the difference warrants a distinction between a clone or a mutt .

daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: Atlas buys Walthers tooling
« Reply #127 on: July 03, 2018, 10:02:01 AM »
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I think Atlas stated in their announcement that the line would be incorporated into their current brands so I doubt you will see Atlas-Life-Like. Also most of this stuff was rebranded to Walthers, so there would be little consistency.

As for the name of the hopper... Wouldn't 90 ton hoppers need 100 ton trucks?
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Mark5

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Re: Atlas buys Walthers tooling
« Reply #128 on: July 03, 2018, 10:14:50 AM »
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As for the name of the hopper... Wouldn't 90 ton hoppers need 100 ton trucks?

Well yeah, but I am pretty sure that out of the box these don't come with 90 ton trucks! :trollface:

This model was tooled when there were no 100 ton trucks available, hell Atlas only had Bettendorfs at the time, so the original releases came with Bettendorfs.

They look much better with 100 ton trucks: https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=20824.msg193275#msg193275

Mark


nkalanaga

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Re: Atlas buys Walthers tooling
« Reply #129 on: July 04, 2018, 01:51:38 AM »
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That was my idea.  All of mine came with plain friction bearing trucks, 50/70 ton, and I added 100 ton trucks when they became available.  I suspect that Atlas called them "90 ton" cars so people wouldn't ask "where's the 100 ton trucks?".

For what it's worth, Atlas 100-ton trucks with plastic wheels won't fit.  I had to grind clearance notches in the slope sheets to allow the flanges to clear on curves.  So it wouldn't be as easy as Atlas telling the factory to use different trucks.
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cjm413

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Re: Atlas buys Walthers tooling
« Reply #130 on: July 04, 2018, 02:43:05 PM »
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Let's talk about duplicate entries:

SF offset cupola caboose. The LL version has a separate cupola with better fore and aft windows. Rivets are also much smaller than the Atlas model. I would sat Atlas should toss the Atlas version and update the LL version with finer end rails and window glass. (Proper trucks would help as well)


LL underframe also has bolsters in the correct location.

cjm413

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Re: Atlas buys Walthers tooling
« Reply #131 on: July 04, 2018, 02:47:07 PM »
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I have seen advertisements for ATLAS BLMA . I thought the nod gave respect and as well an expectation of sameness the buyer would have .

Now if Atlas combines the Life-Like parts with theirs , what would be that mutts / mutations ( I never put those 2 words to thought before ) name . Atlas Life-Like mutt ? Sounds kind of wordy to me . But I think the difference warrants a distinction between a clone or a mutt .

BL-LMAtlas?

cjm413

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Re: Atlas buys Walthers tooling
« Reply #132 on: July 04, 2018, 02:53:43 PM »
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That was my idea.  All of mine came with plain friction bearing trucks, 50/70 ton, and I added 100 ton trucks when they became available.  I suspect that Atlas called them "90 ton" cars so people wouldn't ask "where's the 100 ton trucks?".

For what it's worth, Atlas 100-ton trucks with plastic wheels won't fit.  I had to grind clearance notches in the slope sheets to allow the flanges to clear on curves.  So it wouldn't be as easy as Atlas telling the factory to use different trucks.

Trainworx makes 100T trucks with offset bolsters

nkalanaga

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Re: Atlas buys Walthers tooling
« Reply #133 on: July 05, 2018, 01:04:41 AM »
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CJM413:  Thank you.  I may need them for something some day.  For now, all of my Atlas cars are converted, and I doubt that I'll need any more of them, as I still have half a dozen BN in storage. 
N Kalanaga
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Mark5

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Re: Atlas buys Walthers tooling
« Reply #134 on: July 05, 2018, 11:05:35 AM »
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Trainworx makes 100T trucks with offset bolsters

As does MTL.

Mark