Author Topic: Should Manufacturers fix paint schemes on future releases?  (Read 1350 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

wcfn100

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 7853
  • Respect: +672
    • Chicago Great Western Modeler
Should Manufacturers fix paint schemes on future releases?
« on: June 16, 2018, 01:20:26 PM »
0
As I impatiently wait for the Trainworx Flexi-vans, I got thinking about my Wheel of Time IC baggage cars. These are very nice cars, but the striping and colors are way off.  I anticipate at some point WoT will make a run of IC cars with the arched roof which I would want to get.  I'm wondering if I should reach out the them to see if they would address some of the issues with the previous clerestory roof.

Here's a shot of the WoT (bottom) car and a Walthers (top) car which is closer to the prototype.



The orange on the WoT baggage is too bright, and the brown has a dull faded appearance.  Also, the lower yellow stripe should not be at the bottom, but rather about 4" up.

Personally, I'd like to see them fix both the color and striping to better match the Kato, Walthers and, knowing Pat, the Flexi-vans.

Any opinions?

Jason

ljudice

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3026
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +148
    • NS/CR Camp Car Models
Re: Should Manufacturers fix paint schemes on future releases?
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2018, 01:40:07 PM »
0
As I impatiently wait for the Trainworx Flexi-vans, I got thinking about my Wheel of Time IC baggage cars. These are very nice cars, but the striping and colors are way off.  I anticipate at some point WoT will make a run of IC cars with the arched roof which I would want to get.  I'm wondering if I should reach out the them to see if they would address some of the issues with the previous clerestory roof.

Here's a shot of the WoT (bottom) car and a Walthers (top) car which is closer to the prototype.



The orange on the WoT baggage is too bright, and the brown has a dull faded appearance.  Also, the lower yellow stripe should not be at the bottom, but rather about 4" up.

Personally, I'd like to see them fix both the color and striping to better match the Kato, Walthers and, knowing Pat, the Flexi-vans.

Any opinions?

Jason


I agree - but personally I think it's a matter of a wing and a prayer when colors are specified to the factory in China....



thomasjmdavis

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2050
  • Respect: +297
Re: Should Manufacturers fix paint schemes on future releases?
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2018, 01:47:29 PM »
+1
I have several of the WoT baggage cars (both 60' and 70').  Most are acceptable to me, as I am forgiving of some variation in colors in a train- simply because most photos I have of passenger trains show some variation in color - and a photo of a car taken when it is cloudy will look different than one taken when it is sunny- and the color will look different if the model is seen under 2400K incandescent, 3000K halogen, 4000k LED, or 6000K sunlight.  No two manufacturers CN green looks the same next to each other, but most look pretty good in a stand alone situation. I can probably find a photo to match any them.

That said, the ACL "purple" on the ACL 70' baggage is just plain wrong- much too blue.  I recommend they fix it .  It does not match any other ACL equipment I have, and it would look wrong even in a train of matching cars. 

So, I am with you, I would prefer future cars be as close to correct as they can get.

I spent a lot of my career building and painting sets and displays for TV commercials and corporate events.  You get a call from NYC and the person at the other end gives you a Pantone number for company logo, you go to your paint supplier and work with them to get paint mixed to match, send a sample back to the ad agency for approval, and paint it. It really isn't rocket science- records on this sort of thing still exist for most roads- if not Pantone numbers, then Dupont paint specs. And WoT knows it- because their "pre-order" artwork for the ACL was right on for color- so they knew what color it was supposed to be.

To my eye Modelflex ACL purple is very good, and my preferred CN #11 Green is Rapido Proto Paint.
Tom D.

"The difference between the difficult and the impossible is that doing the impossible is usually more fun." (my college design professor Russell Whaley)

nkalanaga

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 6799
  • Respect: +306
Re: Should Manufacturers fix paint schemes on future releases?
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2018, 01:49:45 PM »
+1
On a given day, in a prototype train, would those two cars have been the same colors?  Or would they have been painted at different times, weathered in different ways, and thus looked different next to each other?  Possibly even different paint lots, which can vary, even if they're supposed to be identical.

Now, if it's a train set, all built at the same time, painted at the same time, and (usually) run together, then yes, the cars would probably match. 
N Kalanaga
Be well

wcfn100

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 7853
  • Respect: +672
    • Chicago Great Western Modeler
Re: Should Manufacturers fix paint schemes on future releases?
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2018, 02:40:21 PM »
0
simply because most photos I have of passenger trains show some variation in color

Variation is fine, but when 7 cars of a 14 car train are the same, it ceases to be a 'variation'.

I'm not going to get into a full blown discussion on color, but even if you could account for one of the colors on the WoT time car with cloudy day photos or types of light bulbs, or whatever,  you couldn't do it for both colors together.  They have completely different issues.

Jason

CBQ Fan

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2356
  • Respect: +122
Re: Should Manufacturers fix paint schemes on future releases?
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2018, 03:02:19 PM »
0
I prefer each manufacturer to be consistent and if all the manufacturers can be closes that is cool..  Kato UP yellow comes to mind as an ugh, really!
Brian

Way of the Zephyr

Mark5

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 9183
  • Always with the negative waves Moriarty ...
  • Respect: +194
Re: Should Manufacturers fix paint schemes on future releases?
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2018, 03:45:01 PM »
0
Short answer - yes!

thomasjmdavis

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2050
  • Respect: +297
Re: Should Manufacturers fix paint schemes on future releases?
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2018, 04:28:27 PM »
0
Variation is fine, but when 7 cars of a 14 car train are the same, it ceases to be a 'variation'.

I'm not going to get into a full blown discussion on color, but even if you could account for one of the colors on the WoT time car with cloudy day photos or types of light bulbs, or whatever,  you couldn't do it for both colors together.  They have completely different issues.

Jason
I don't disagree.  Frankly, I am surprised that with all the information that is available, manufacturers make as many paint and lettering mistakes as they do- especially for large, popular roadnames. 

I am not an IC expert (which is why I used the ACL example), so will leave it to those of you who are to determine which paint jobs are correct for IC. But given my experience with ACL and the variations in CN colors among manufacturers, I certainly appreciate what you are talking about.

The info is readily available, and it seems like a lack of quality control.  As I said, I would rather they fix the problems in future runs.
Tom D.

"The difference between the difficult and the impossible is that doing the impossible is usually more fun." (my college design professor Russell Whaley)

nkalanaga

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 6799
  • Respect: +306
Re: Should Manufacturers fix paint schemes on future releases?
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2018, 01:27:01 AM »
0
My problem is with GN Big Sky Blue.  Now, it weathered a lot of different ways, and I model 1974 BN, so a little variation isn't an issue.  In fact, I've used a number of different paints to simulate it, and the cars aren't even close to the same color.  BUT...

Most of the weathering was fading, so why do most manufacturers today use a color closer to Conrail Blue, which is MUCH too dark?  The only similarity between the two colors is that they're both "blue"!  Con-Cor and Kato got it right in the late 1960s, and KD/MT has done a good job over the years, so the color can be matched.
N Kalanaga
Be well

Point353

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2044
  • Respect: +373
Re: Should Manufacturers fix paint schemes on future releases?
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2018, 01:53:06 AM »
0
As I impatiently wait for the Trainworx Flexi-vans, I got thinking about my Wheel of Time IC baggage cars. These are very nice cars, but the striping and colors are way off.  I anticipate at some point WoT will make a run of IC cars with the arched roof which I would want to get.  I'm wondering if I should reach out the them to see if they would address some of the issues with the previous clerestory roof.
The orange on the WoT baggage is too bright, and the brown has a dull faded appearance.  Also, the lower yellow stripe should not be at the bottom, but rather about 4" up.
Personally, I'd like to see them fix both the color and striping to better match the Kato, Walthers and, knowing Pat, the Flexi-vans.
Any opinions?
Don't see why WoT wouldn't appreciate some constructive feedback if it can help them produce a more accurate model.
No guarantee that they will act on your suggestions, however.
Specifying a slightly different paint color may be simple to implement with little cost impact, but changing the mold for a roof may not.
In the meantime you can either be happy that these models were even made in your favorite roadname or you can join the ranks of the perpetually dissatisfied.

thomasjmdavis

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2050
  • Respect: +297
Re: Should Manufacturers fix paint schemes on future releases?
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2018, 08:55:12 AM »
0
Quote
Specifying a slightly different paint color may be simple to implement with little cost impact, but changing the mold for a roof may not.

In this case, WoT already makes the arch roof the OP is looking for- the baggage car in question is offered with both clerestory and arch roofs (is there also a separate "Harriman" arch roof?) and with a variety of ventilator styles to match or approximate different prototypes. I have some of each roof, and the roofs are interchangeable. I believe the original prototype car was a MP clerestory car, but with an arch roof, it is very close, if not right on, for the arch roof baggage cars made by ACF and CCF and sold to a number of North American railroads. 
Tom D.

"The difference between the difficult and the impossible is that doing the impossible is usually more fun." (my college design professor Russell Whaley)

Point353

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2044
  • Respect: +373
Re: Should Manufacturers fix paint schemes on future releases?
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2018, 11:22:25 AM »
0
In this case, WoT already makes the arch roof the OP is looking for- the baggage car in question is offered with both clerestory and arch roofs (is there also a separate "Harriman" arch roof?) and with a variety of ventilator styles to match or approximate different prototypes. I have some of each roof, and the roofs are interchangeable. I believe the original prototype car was a MP clerestory car, but with an arch roof, it is very close, if not right on, for the arch roof baggage cars made by ACF and CCF and sold to a number of North American railroads.
But the OP states that he has some issues with the "previous clerestory roof" - not the arched roof - that he wants to bring to the attention of WoT.

wcfn100

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 7853
  • Respect: +672
    • Chicago Great Western Modeler
Re: Should Manufacturers fix paint schemes on future releases?
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2018, 12:06:46 PM »
0
Perhaps more contexts would be helpful.

With the announcement of the Trainworx Flexi-vans,  I have an opportunity to build the Illinois Central "Land 'o Corn' which ran through Waterloo, Iowa, the town that I focus most of my modeling efforts on.

In waiting for the Flexi-vans, I've been picking up any other cars that I can use for this train.  Being mostly head-end cars by the 60's, the WOT cars are needed in numbers.  WoT has produced 60' and 70' cars with clerestory roofs already, however, the arched roof was much more common to the IC and I fully expect them to produce those at some point.  I also expect them to copy the current cars in regards to color and striping.

The current paint and decoration doesn't match the prototype or any of the offerings from other companies.  Nor would it watch anything I would paint.  I'm inclined to reach out to WoT to see if they would address these issues for future releases but was curious were people might stand on this.  Even if some still want to say the color is subjective, the striping is not.  Every photo will show that it's wrong.


Jason




coosvalley

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1368
  • Respect: +611
Re: Should Manufacturers fix paint schemes on future releases?
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2018, 05:14:08 PM »
0
Some taping, a little paint, a few decals....problem solved

There's not even any windows in the affected area.


OldEastRR

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2612
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +315
Re: Should Manufacturers fix paint schemes on future releases?
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2018, 09:09:06 PM »
0
Hmmm... I thought the first run of these cars were exclusively Harriman roofs. Or is that not the "arched" you mean?