KATO D&RGW ALCO PA-1 Loksound

[ek2000]

I received my Loksound installed KATO D&RGW PA-1 from MBK. First impressions are great. It really has a throaty ALCO 244 prime move sound that I haven't seen with my BLI PA-1 or the Rapido FPA-4 (I think the FPA-4 is a 251 prime mover). I did notice that the Diesel volume was set to the maximum which could help give that effect to some extent, nevertheless, the diesel grunt is unmistakably different from others. The audio amplifier is 2W @ 40ohms load. I typically remember seeing 1W in several other sound models. The horn is beastly and worthy of an ALCO, also set to full volume out of the box. I'm yet to weigh this, but it is fairly heavy for its size and is bound to be a great puller going by the weight.

The details are not state of the art as with Rapido, IM or Scale Trains but nevertheless it is a beautiful model. There aren't many separately applied details (if any). The number boards are not lit. It has the headlight and mars light. The coupler is a KATO coupler which I much prefer be a MT coupler. The Kato couplers don't play nicely with boxing glove couplers from Bachmann and I'm yet to test with MT and accumate couplers.

Motor is silky smooth when the locomotive is quiet. There is short circuit and overload protection. Pickup seems to be excellent and it was able to navigate a Bachmann turnout with an unpowered frog without missing a beat at speed step 1 !

The decoder comes with ESU full throttle feature and also has the switching mode which I've seen with newer Loksound locomotives.

In a nutshell, it is everything that can be expected of a KATO and KATO truly has a way of impressing like no other !

[jdcolombo]

I've never heard a factory sound install from Kato, but your PA-1 should sound like this (I did the sound installation myself):

The sound file technically is incorrect.  The PA-1 used a 16-cyl 244 prime mover.  But there are no 16-cyl 244's left in the world - they were all scrapped, partly because they were not very reliable.  As a result, there are no good recordings of a PA-1 with its original prime mover.  So the ESU sound file is a recent recording of a 12-cyl 244 (the prime mover in the RS-3, many of which still exist).  But it does capture the full ALCo "I'm going to blow apart in any second" experience!

John C.

[peteski]

The audio amplifier is 2W @ 40ohms load. I typically remember seeing 1W in several other sound models. T

That would be 4 (not 40) ohms.  And yes, ESU rates their amps for 1W @ 8 ohms, or double that with 4 ohm speaker. I wonder if there are actually 2 8 ohm speakers in that model, resulting in a 4 ohm total impedance.  To get technical, the perceived volume is a result of what the amp can provide, combined with the speaker's sensitivity, and the type of enclosure used.  But regardless of the technical mambo-jumbo, the most important thing is that you like the sound! 

[ek2000]

I've never heard a factory sound install from Kato, but your PA-1 should sound like this (I did the sound installation myself):

The sound file technically is incorrect.  The PA-1 used a 16-cyl 244 prime mover.  But there are no 16-cyl 244's left in the world - they were all scrapped, partly because they were not very reliable.  As a result, there are no good recordings of a PA-1 with its original prime mover.  So the ESU sound file is a recent recording of a 12-cyl 244 (the prime mover in the RS-3, many of which still exist).  But it does capture the full ALCo "I'm going to blow apart in any second" experience!

John C.

John,  I've viewed your Youtube video a hundred times  I bought the locomotive hoping it would sound as good as yours (and it does).

[ek2000]

That would be 4 (not 40) ohms.  And yes, ESU rates their amps for 1W @ 8 ohms, or doubel that with 4 ohm speaker. I wonder if there are actually 2 8 ohm speakers in that model resulting in a 4 ohm total impedance.  To get technical, the perceived volume is a result of what the amp can provide combined with the speaker's sensitivity and the type of enclosure used.  But regardless of the technical mambo-jumbo, the most important thing is that you like the sound! 

Thank you Pete, I was never good with circuits and related terminology as you can see why. Kato did leave a smile on my face today and I can better appreciate why you like Kato the way you do.

[jdcolombo]

If you ever have occasion to take the shell off, I’d love to see how Kato did the install, especially the speaker.  Too many manufacturers cut corners on the speaker, although Kobo Shops is essentially an after-market installer, so they could do things not possible in normal manufacturing.  Curious to see if Kato has folks who read TRW and copy or improve on what we do!

John C.

[peteski]

Thank you Pete, I was never good with circuits and related terminology as you can see why. Kato did leave a smile on my face today and I can better appreciate why you like Kato the way you do.

Yes, I sure am a Kato fanboy!   
They are not perfect, but they sure are pretty close.

[peteski]

If you ever have occasion to take the shell off, I’d love to see how Kato did the install, especially the speaker.  Too many manufacturers cut corners on the speaker, although Kobo Shops is essentially an after-market installer, so they could do things not possible in normal manufacturing.  Curious to see if Kato has folks who read TRW and copy or improve on what we do!

John C.

Kato does in fact have someone here who (unofficially) reads the forum and posts info and interacts with us.  He is even the (or one of) installer(s) who install the decoders in Kato models with factory-installed decoders.

Remember this thread?

[nightmare0331]

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it's a tight fit in there.

Enjoy!

Kelley.
www.dufordmodelworks.com

[jdcolombo]

Thanks for the photos.

This is pretty much identical to what I do, except they mount the speaker in back by milling off the rear of the frame and use what I think is an 11x15 in a proper enclosure.  No wonder it sounds excellent.  The only thing I don't see are keep-alive caps, but given the excellent electrical pickup and weight of this model, caps might be unnecessary.  I use them, but it's probably overkill for the PA's or even the E's which have that same "solid hunk of metal" frame.

Yep, they do it right, as one would expect from Kato.

John C.

[nightmare0331]

Thanks for the photos.

This is pretty much identical to what I do, except they mount the speaker in back by milling off the rear of the frame and use what I think is an 11x15 in a proper enclosure.  No wonder it sounds excellent.  The only thing I don't see are keep-alive caps, but given the excellent electrical pickup and weight of this model, caps might be unnecessary.  I use them, but it's probably overkill for the PA's or even the E's which have that same "solid hunk of metal" frame.

Yep, they do it right, as one would expect from Kato.

John C.

That is indeed an 11x15 in an ESU enclosure.

Even with the slug chopped and milled out for the speaker, the frame is still pretty hefty.  (same goes for the E5' and E8's and SDP40F's with Loksound installed)

Enjoy!

Kelley.
www.dufordmodelworks.com

[jdcolombo]

Kato does in fact have someone here who (unofficially) reads the forum and posts info and interacts with us.  He is even the (or one of) installer(s) who install the decoders in Kato models with factory-installed decoders.

Remember this thread?

Ah . . . I'd completely forgotten. 

Well, Kelly, you do great work!  If I do another PA, I might try the 11x15 set up in the rear, like you did, and move the caps to the nose.  My experience has been that the 11x15 produces audibly superior sound to an 8x12 when both have proper enclosures.  [Too often, folks put in the biggest speaker they can and "cheat" on enclosure size, or don't use an enclosure at all, with very poor results].

John C.

[ek2000]

The Kato PA w/Loksound weighs a hefty 126.6 grams or 4.47 ounces. In comparison, the IM SD 40-2 w/sound weighs 84.3 gms (2.97 oz) and Rapido FL-9 w/sound weighs 91.3 gms (3.22 oz).

 

[OldEastRR]

However, the undoctored PA1 weighs in at 5 ounces. Wondering if there's some way to get that .5 ounce back onto the loco frame somewhere after adding DCC and sound.

[jdcolombo]

However, the undoctored PA1 weighs in at 5 ounces. Wondering if there's some way to get that .5 ounce back onto the loco frame somewhere after adding DCC and sound.

It may be possible to add some very thin lead sheet (e.g., 1mm thick) over the center section of the frame to get some of that back.  You'd have to put tape around the lead sheet to make sure you didn't short anything, but I think there is 1mm of clearance between the top of the frame and the top of the shell.  I've never tried it, because I run PA's in two-unit consists pulling passenger cars.  One modified PA, even with the weight loss, is more than enough for this; two could pull a 40-car passenger train on my flat layout.  Maybe if one had grades the extra half-ounce would make a difference.

John C.