ESM X-65 rolling quality issue

[nkalanaga]

I finally received three of these today.  The frames look basically the same as the X-58s, especially the coupler pockets and body bolster.  My X-58s all roll beautifully.

The X-65s barely roll at all.  There is a large screw, holding the draft gear together, directly above the outboard axle.  The axle rubs on this, and the car doesn't want to roll.  Simple enough, and I've had that problem in other cases, where a coupler screw and axle conflict.  But here there must be something else as well.

That same screw is there on the X58s, and they roll fine.  So, either the body bolsters are slightly thinner, allowing the X-65 to sit a bit lower, or there's something I'm missing.  I'll probably put a washer on the bolster, starting with 0.005 inch styrene.  I tried replacing the screw with a flathead 00-90, but it's larger than a 00-90.

Has anyone else noticed this, or am I just (un)lucky?

[bbussey]

Very odd, as the Keystone chassis/underframe assembly is exactly the same as used on the X58, including the trucks, wheels and screws.  The clearance between the outer axle and screw head is narrow but enough for the wheels to roll freely.  I would verify that the wheels are not binding in the truck frames.  You should be able to adjust there by spreading the truck frames at the journal boxes.

The screws are M1x2.2 pan head.  It may be possible to find the M1 screws with a flatter head, as they now are readily available online in the States through Amazon and other sources.

[coosvalley]

My X58s and my X65s had this to some degree, I just took a few swipes with a small file to the offending screw, not much filing was needed,and the screw still has enough left of it to still function.

[bbussey]

I did not notice this, but it would appear a different screws supplier was contracted overseas.  Actually, I arranged for what was supposed to be standard screws from another contractor to send to my primary contractor up the road, and they must have sub-contracted it out (or changed their tooling).  I saw no issues with the pre-production samples.
.

[Point353]

I did not notice this, but it would appear a different screws supplier was contracted overseas.  Actually, I arranged for what was supposed to be standard screws from another contractor to send to my primary contractor up the road, and they must have sub-contracted it out (or changed their tooling).  I saw no issues with the pre-production samples.

I've encountered some similar issues with foreign subcontractors in the past in a different line of business.
The pre-production samples were produced in a prototype shop and were often of a higher quality than the subsequent production units. Unauthorized substitutions of "equivalent" parts would tend to creep in if there was no source inspection conducted at the factory. The company I was involved with at the time ended up having to hire a person to live in China full time to keep a wary eye on their subcontractor's operation.

[nkalanaga]

Bryan and Point353:  The factory I work for has had similar issues, especially with Chinese parts.  We make auto parts, and there have been several times we started having quality issues, which were traced to substandard parts coming in from China.  We're an international company, so have reps in China, but even so, we sometimes have to get OUR customer, usually one of the big automakers, involved before it's fixed.

Bryan:  The trucks roll fine.  My first thought was that one of the wheels been dislodged during shipping, but they all spin freely.

Coosvalley:  I tried filing the screws on one of the cars, and it worked fine.  Thank you!  I've seen some screws where the slots were too shallow for this, but these are good and deep.

[coosvalley]

Coosvalley:  I tried filing the screws on one of the cars, and it worked fine.  Thank you!  I've seen some screws where the slots were too shallow for this, but these are good and deep.

 ..My cars were mostly good out of the box, but after I messed around with the couplers this would happen, so it works for both X58s and X65s quite well.

[nkalanaga]

Coosvalley;  That's also good to know.  Hopefully I won't have to take my couplers apart.

Also, I did find one wheelset that simply wouldn't roll right.  I tried bending the sideframes, but that made it worse, as the axle then fell out.  Looking at it with my 10X geologist's class, the UNinsulated wheel wasn't fully seated on the axle.  After trying to push it in by hand, I finally dug out my ancient NWSL Puller, and forced it into place.  NOW, everything rolls fine!  I think that's the first time I've actually used the Puller, in 30(?) 40(?) years!

[CBQ Fan]

Great customer service and support from the company on a faulty product.  Go find the screws on amazon. I will be sure to keep that in mind when considering future purchases.

[nkalanaga]

I'm not complaining.  Filing the screws is easy, and finding a workable replacement would be pure luck.  I'm sure Bryan is already preparing some rather blunt comments to the factory about unauthorized substitutions.  The next run will likely be fine, and if not, the fix literally only took a few seconds.  Pull the trucks off, file the screw a bit, put the trucks back on.

Yes, I did have one bad wheelset, but as the box itself notes, ESM doesn't make the trucks, they come from Atlas (BLMA), and even there the fix was easy enough.  If I hadn't had the Puller, I could have changed wheels, which is a common job on many N scale products anyway.  And on the prototype, for that matter, as wheel do wear out.

[bbussey]

Great customer service and support from the company on a faulty product.  Go find the screws on amazon. I will be sure to keep that in mind when considering future purchases.

Everyone except for you seems to be happy with the product.  Be careful, your constant trolling will get you into hot water.

[CBQ Fan]

Everyone except for you seems to be happy with the product.  Be careful, your constant trolling will get you into hot water.

Considering I didn’t comment on your product I am not sure why you are taking pot shots and threatening me.  I simply made an observation of your customer service response which sure seemed like punting the issue.  If you are going to play with the big boys you have be able to accept a little constructive criticism once in awhile.

[bbussey]

You did comment on the product. And my comment was an observation, not a threat. If you want to keep sniping at me because your feelings are still hurt from months ago regarding your manufacturing knowledge and experience, PM or email me instead of constantly polluting threads with your trolling.

[CBQ Fan]

You did comment on the product. And my comment was an observation, not a threat. If you want to keep sniping at me because your feelings are still hurt from months ago regarding your manufacturing knowledge and experience, PM or email me instead of constantly polluting threads with your trolling.

The cars don’t roll, they are faulty.  I stated a fact about three cars, not a whole line.  Your response was to make the consumer do all the work to rectify the issue.  That is poor customer service in my opinion. I challenge anyone to review the body of my posts.  You won’t see me trolling.  I am no more of a troll than you are a bully.  You need to get over yourself, you couldn’t hurt my feelings if you tried.

[strummer]

I think it might be time for some moderator to step in here...

Mark in Oregon