Re-Gauging the Kato GP38-2 and Other Engines...

[strummer]

As I work through my little fleet, dropping trucks and correcting the wheel gauge (so far, I've managed to do an Atlas GP38, MT FTA, Atlas/Kato RS11 and RS3: so far so good ) and this "38-2" is next. But..

...I took off the shell, and this design looks nothing like my other diesels; it doesn't even appear to be of the "split-frame" type. According to "Spookshow" Mark (and Ron Beardon) my example is a second run: it has the "A" molded to the fuel tank, and shows small flywheels at either end of the worms.

My question is: how do I drop out the trucks? Split-frame types are easy; how is it accomplished on this engine?

Thanks...

Mark in Oregon

[wcfn100]

I think there are two metal contact plates on the bottom of the frame.  You can unscrew one of those and I think the truck will drop out.

Jason

[strummer]

Thanks Jason, I will look into that...

Mark in Oregon

[strummer]

As I work through my little fleet, dropping trucks and correcting the wheel gauge (so far, I've managed to do an Atlas GP38, MT FTA, Atlas/Kato RS11 and RS3: so far so good ) and this "38-2" is next. But..

...I took off the shell, and this design looks nothing like my other diesels; it doesn't even appear to be of the "split-frame" type. According to "Spookshow" Mark (and Ron Beardon) my example is a second run: it has the "A" molded to the fuel tank, and shows small flywheels at either end of the worms.

My question is: how do I drop out the trucks? Split-frame types are easy; how is it accomplished on this engine?

Thanks...

Mark in Oregon

[nkalanaga]

It's been many years since I looked at one of mine, but that sounds familiar.  More like the early Kato PA-1 than any of today's frames.

[randgust]

I have a love-hate with mine.

It's the most impossible-to-disassemble diesel I own.  You have to get the cab off, and the battery boxes off, to get the shell off, and the sill and frame stay behind.  So if you've done painting and wire handrails, you're dinging the thing every time you mess with it.

As there are no pickup wipers, but it has end-axle pickup, it rolls easily but has occasional stall tantrums as the truck frame contact to the frame is the electrical path, twist that slightly and you're dead.  I made little pickup fingers and jammed in there, only partly successful.    Design-wise it's the Kato Platypus.   This and the GP50 were the end of this idea.  See http://www.spookshow.net/loco/katogp38.html    I have the original one.

I got so annoyed at it's pickup issues that I finally retired it and got an Atlas GP38.   Then I discovered that the new one could only pull 1/3 of the Kato.  Bah.   Couldn't pull the train it's assigned to, even with help.   So the Atlas went in the display case and the Kato came back out and is still running.   Other than the stall issue, it's a honey for sure, and still outpulls any roadswitcher I own.   If you keep it rolling so that the flywheels kick in, it won't stall, but creeping around a yard, forget it.   I have it paired with another locomotive just to nudge it.  But the gauge is good.

If anybody has any good ideas for modifying these for easier disassembly, or improving pickup, let me know.....  I even bought a second one to try to modify so that a normal shell (with the sill and handrails on it) would fit over the original mechanism, and after studying it, it was put in 'long tem storage' where such ideas often grow moss on the north side.

[strummer]

I have a love-hate with mine.

It's the most impossible-to-disassemble diesel I own.  You have to get the cab off, and the battery boxes off, to get the shell off, and the sill and frame stay behind.  So if you've done painting and wire handrails, you're dinging the thing every time you mess with it.

As there are no pickup wipers, but it has end-axle pickup, it rolls easily but has occasional stall tantrums as the truck frame contact to the frame is the electrical path, twist that slightly and you're dead.  I made little pickup fingers and jammed in there, only partly successful.    Design-wise it's the Kato Platypus.   This and the GP50 were the end of this idea.  See http://www.spookshow.net/loco/katogp38.html    I have the original one.

I got so annoyed at it's pickup issues that I finally retired it and got an Atlas GP38.   Then I discovered that the new one could only pull 1/3 of the Kato.  Bah.   Couldn't pull the train it's assigned to, even with help.   So the Atlas went in the display case and the Kato came back out and is still running.   Other than the stall issue, it's a honey for sure, and still outpulls any roadswitcher I own.   If you keep it rolling so that the flywheels kick in, it won't stall, but creeping around a yard, forget it.   I have it paired with another locomotive just to nudge it.  But the gauge is good.

If anybody has any good ideas for modifying these for easier disassembly, or improving pickup, let me know.....

Yes, please... 

And yes, I discovered how much more involved disassembly/assembly is, particularly with those battery boxes. I guess I'm lucky in that mine runs really well, and I don't wish to muck that up, but the wheels are all slightly tight, gauge-wise, so I'd like to be able to address that and still have it run well afterwards...

Mark in (windy) Oregon

[randgust]

I bought a second one as a parts unit... and just checked it.

Hey, the easy way to do this is to pop off the sideframes and drop the wheels out instead of trying to get the trucks off.

The clips are plastic toward the fuel tank, between the truck frame halves.  Push together with tweezers and lift off from the back  Then you'll have easy access to the wheels.

[strummer]

I bought a second one as a parts unit... and just checked it.

Hey, the easy way to do this is to pop off the sideframes and drop the wheels out instead of trying to get the trucks off.

The clips are plastic toward the fuel tank, between the truck frame halves.  Push together with tweezers and lift off from the back  Then you'll have easy access to the wheels.

Cool...I see now that the design is similar to what they (Kato) did on the locos they built for Atlas. I suspect the pickups might be different, but as far as the assembly, it looks close.

Will give it a go and see what happens...thanks!

Mark in Oregon

[nkalanaga]

Axle end pickup?  Is there any way to solder a wire to the pickup strip, and the other end to motor, or the frame somewhere?

I have a bunch of these, but haven't run them in over 20 years.  One thing I noticed, when I got them, was that a MT Z F7 would outpull them.  I have a pair of those under kitbashed Nn3 boxcabs, and was a little surprised at their pulling power.  I wonder if it's all the wheel diameter, or if something else is different, as it seems that the GP38 weighs at least as much, and they have the same wheel arrangement.

[randgust]

There's no pickup strips of any kind, and no end-axle pickups either.   It's split axles on a split truck sideframe, held apart by the plastic gears in the middle.   Goes up to the pickup plates on the plastic frame. 

I made tiny little phosphor-bronze wipers to spring between the truck halves and the frame plates, that helped, but it's still nowhere near as good as any end-axle + frame wiper design.   I've been looking at hard-wiring from those truck halves up, but you'll have to drill and tap those truck halves for a 00-90 screw and wire attachment - they are some kind of solder-resistant alloy.

The genius of the end-axle wiper system is that there is force downward to equalize on irregular track.  You don't realize how much difference that makes until you look backwards at these.

I always wondered what happened to the guy at Kato that designed this.   Nothing ever looked like this GP38 again.  Thank God.  The most redeeming value is that you rarely if ever have to mess with it.

When I bought mine in what must be '87 it was to replace my local roadswitcher - then a Rapido GP7 that I'd rebuilt.   It was super quiet and those flywheels, wow!   But creeping around an industrial area?  Nope.  Constant stalling.    Road unit duty worked fine, as the flywheels kicked in and kept it moving.

[strummer]

It's me again... 

Wow, that was easy; happy to say that this was as simple a fix as I've encountered yet. Those side frames indeed just popped right up and off, all (4) wheel sets were tight (as is typical, I'm finding out for myself), and this thing is now back on the track, gliding through those Atlas code 55 turnouts as nice as could be.

Once again, I guess I got lucky, as this example is as smooth a runner as I own; awesome!

Thank you so much for your helpful suggestion, Mr."randgust".

Mark in Oregon

[strummer]

Axle end pickup?  Is there any way to solder a wire to the pickup strip, and the other end to motor, or the frame somewhere?

I have a bunch of these, but haven't run them in over 20 years.  One thing I noticed, when I got them, was that a MT Z F7 would outpull them.  I have a pair of those under kitbashed Nn3 boxcabs, and was a little surprised at their pulling power.  I wonder if it's all the wheel diameter, or if something else is different, as it seems that the GP38 weighs at least as much, and they have the same wheel arrangement.

Really? "Spookshow" Mark writes "Pulling power is off the charts". We are talking about the N scale loco, right? I have a couple of those Z scale F7s, and they are good (loud!) but I can't imagine they are better pullers than this engine...

Speaking of Kato, can anyone here tell me how to disassemble the little "Pocket Line" steeple cab engine? I have one that runs really well, but, as usual, the wheels are tight, so it doesn't play nice with these code 55 turnouts...

Mark in Oregon

[randgust]

I 'think' it has either this chassis under it, or the one with the handrails - which is the same drive just different plastic (11-104)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kato-11-103-Powered-Motorized-Chassis-N-scale-/352297014800?hash=item520689d610

It's a dirt-simple mechanism, not much to it.  Body clips on. There's a metal plate underneath that has to be removed.   Wheels come out from the bottom.  The problem with these is that the only thing that holds in the wheels is the plastic sideframes, and they don't equalize.  There are wipers, not end-axle pickups.   So, while it's a split axle with a gear in the middle, if you widen the gauge you tighten the fit and make it even stiffer.  You may have to use a reamer or a bit to SLIGHTLY make then axle cups deeper, but its still kinda iffy.

On mine, I replaced the original 42" wheels with 11-105 27" wheels and ditched the metal plate thingie.  That's the powerplant under my trackmobile.

The five-pole motor in those is just wonderful.  I've bought some of these and scrapped them out just to get that small, open-frame, five-pole motor.

[strummer]

Thanks. Yeah, that looks like the one.

I removed the (2) small screws, but still don't see how it all comes apart; will take another look.

And yes, it runs amazingly well, considering it's just a 4-wheeled device with such a tiny "footprint"...

Mark in Oregon