Does Anybody Make a "Working" N Scale Switchstand?

[C855B]

Yes there is- leverage.

The image below is to scale  mates to the Atlas turnout dimensions, will print in FUD and my motion file says it will move and deliver 90 degrees of travel over +/- 0.6mm of (my) measured travel of the throwbar.  The lever will be trapped by the stand when as the final part of assembly.\ and the targets aligned as the last step.  the tube diameter is 0.8mm.

This looks good, John, and was pretty close to a thought I had. Big plus with your idea is eliminating the need to precision-drill the throwbar for the lever dog. You'll probably want 0.46mm on the tube, corresponding to the 0.018" tubing from ngineering.com. Also, you might think about ridges on the fixed piece (bearing block?) to act as shelves for the switchstand. Or - could this be made to work underneath the ties, with a little bit of excavation?

I still need to lay it out, but this is the design I'm going for using .2mm.



Not sure if it will even work, but I'll throw it on my next .2mm sheet I have etched.

Jason

Yummy! If we can make it work, you know I'll need a 55-gallon drum of 'em. If you had to use a .3 or .4mm sheet (with strategic half-etches) for strength that wouldn't be awful.

Many thanks to you both for exercising your CAD skills like this!

[alhoop]

Here is some info from a Gordon Odegard article in Model Railroader Feb 1981 on how to figure the length of the crank.

Paraphrasing " .. the length of the crank, R, is determined by the amount of point movement, or throw.
In HO the point throw is about .125". Whatever the dimension is, square the dimension, divide the result by 2,
and extract the square root of the answer. " This answer is the length of the crank.
It would be interesting to try this on Mike's micro,micro,micro servo operated turnout.
Al

[narrowminded]

Here is some info from a Gordon Odegard article in Model Railroader Feb 1981 on how to figure the length of the crank.

Paraphrasing " .. the length of the crank, R, is determined by the amount of point movement, or throw.
In HO the point throw is about .125". Whatever the dimension is, square the dimension, divide the result by 2,
and extract the square root of the answer. " This answer is the length of the crank.
It would be interesting to try this on Mike's micro,micro,micro servo operated turnout.
Al

... or take the throw travel x .7071 as I said above.   Whichever you find easier.  

Metric?   Same multiplier.

[robert3985]

This was a topic of much interest to me many years ago.  At that time (over 20 years ago), there was a company named "Sequoia Scale Model" (since gone out of business and then being bought up by Muir Models and was once available at Walthers by the name "Sequoia Scale Models by TMW"...and I can't find any current listings) who produced a switch stand in what was known as a "D&RGW #4 Switch Stand" and as an "N-scale Switch Stand".

The kits cost $1.89 and there were two injection molded switch stands in the bubble pack, and I bought up about a dozen or so of the kits, not thinking they would be going out of business in the near future.

However, they kinda bit the dust around 1985 or so, and I started collecting the kits, even posting a pitiful plea here on TRW back in 2012 to buy or trade anybody who had these kits.  Of course, the only ones who seriously knew about them also wanted to buy or trade for them, so I got no offers here!  LOL!

Photo (1) - Sequoia Scale Models HO D&RGW #4 Switch Stands  in Package:


Photo (2) - Sequoia Scale Models N-scale Switch Stand Kit with Preiser Pre-Painted Fisherman (at 6', 1" tall) for Relative Size:


I decided to not attempt to make these injection-molded, scale-sized models "functional", but link them to my turnouts' throwbars which are activated by under-layout Tortoises.  I replaced the target shafts with piano wire of a proper diameter, as opposed to the scale 4" diameter of the injection molded shafts, both for looks and durability. 

Unfortunately, I don't have any photos of these, which I installed on my two 6' long Ntrak modules depicting Devils Slide in Weber Canyon.  However, they were real crowd stoppers, especially linked to the slow-mo throwing action of the Tortoises under the scenery!

Also, they were fragile, being Styrene and were broken often by over-enthusiastic Ntrakers obsessively cleaning track.  I didn't care too much as the piano wire target shaft acted as a "keeper" for the tiny parts and a little Tenax welded it all back together.

The rotating targets gave plenty of indication of how the turnouts were thrown, which was good for me since I have no LEDs or visible toggle switches on my layout.  I also replaced the cast Styrene targets with .003 brass punchings, with embossed attachment "rivets" I applied with my NWSL riveter tool.

Also, the prototype up Weber Canyon had removed all of their lanterns from the tops of their switch stands, so at that point in my model railroading preferences, no illuminated lanterns were wanted.

Truth is, prototype switch stands are pretty big, with the tops of the targets being at or over 6' tall...and the lanterns being another 8 to 10 inches above that. 

Photo (3) - Here's a good photo of the relative size of a prototype switch stand vs the switchman doing his job on a hot day:


A couple of years ago, I was getting to the point I wanted to start putting switch stands on my Echo LDE with the two yards and fueling trackage, but I wanted them to be much more durable than Styrene.  Being an ex-manufacturer of lost-wax HO scale detail parts, I had the equipment to cast the Sequoia models up in brass, but I didn't want to set it all up, so I went into town to check with a local rock shop who I knew did custom investment casting, taking half a dozen of the kits along with me as well as a handful of brass pellets I had used years ago to cast up my HO scale parts.  Using my material and the plastic models as the "waxes" which the molten brass would replace, the casting guy at the rock shop said it would cost me $25 bucks for a test cast.  Three days later, I had six shiny brass versions of the Sequoia model!  I went home, cut open a couple of dozen of my Sequoia bubble packs, and three days later I had 48 brass versions for $35 bucks.   

Photo (4) - Here's a brass version of the Sequoia Scale Models kit, minus the base plate which is soldered to the headblocks of one of my hand laid turnouts:


Since I am gonna build both the Riverdale and Ogden Yards in the near future, I am going to need hundreds of these switch stands.  Luckily, I have both the equipment and skills to make vulcanized rubber molds of brass masters, and I have over 50 brass masters in my possession at this point!  I also have a large, commercial wax injector to make the waxes to take down to the rock shop to cast up, which costs me about  50 cents per brass rendition or less.  I'm not sure how many wax master my casting guy at the rock shop can put in a single canister, but we will find out in the near future.

After doing a bit more research in the intervening years about switch stands in the transition era, it became evident that in the late 40's and early 50's, nearly ALL switchstands had lanterns on top.  However, from photos, it also was evident that they weren't lit up during daylight hours, so for daylight operations, I didn't need to illuminate them, and from past experience, the round targets are sufficient for me to immediately see how my turnouts are thrown.

Photo (5) - Photo of Switch Stand with Lantern in 1946 at Cache Junction:


Looking closely at this photo, @wcfn100 could you do a half-etch on the target, leaving three bolt heads running vertically on one side?  Also, a half etch on the stand's platform with some mounting bolt heads on it would add a bit of detail that would really set your etched kit off!

Although the idea of running a wire up a hollow shaft to power an LED is a clever idea, I am pretty sure that if you're looking for a prototype sized switch stand, this protocol isn't gonna give you a near-scale sized model.  My suggestion is to use the smallest red and green MV lenses to reflect colored red or green light back at you.  This may not work all the time, but most of the time, these small reflectors throw an amazing amount of light directly back to the viewer.  I know this from using these tiny MV lenses on my caboose lanterns.  At shows I get many people asking me how I powered the lights in the lanterns on the back of my train! And they show up prominently in my photos.

Photo (6) - MV Lenses on N-scale Caboose Lanterns:


As for me, I'll continue to keep my fingers off the layout as much as possible, although I admire efforts to make N-scale switch stands that work like the real deal!  The main problem IMO is getting that tiny key into the switch lock's keyhole!

I apologize for not having any photos of my completed brass switch stands, but my recent move to a new residence has put me behind on a dozen or more projects which are now in boxes waiting for me to get my workbench up, so...I don't have any soldered up yet!  Maybe in a week or two...

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[alhoop]

... or take the throw travel x .7071 as I said above.   Whichever you find easier.  

Metric?   Same multiplier.

So you did and I read that post - just did not make the connection.
My apologies.
Al

[wcfn100]

Looking closely at this photo, @wcfn100 could you do a half-etch on the target, leaving three bolt heads running vertically on one side?  Also, a half etch on the stand's platform with some mounting bolt heads on it would add a bit of detail that would really set your etched kit off!

At current, the half etch is on the backside as a guide for the target to mount to the staff.  Since it's already half etched, I would think the rivets could be embossed. 

Right now it's just about seeing if this is possible be cause of the really small size. The drawing is done, but it's going on a sheet with 3-4 other projects, so it'll be a few weeks.


Jason

[btrain]

I'm in the office, but I'm super tempted to say at home I have an Alkem models N scale lineside kit at home. It included semaphore signal heads, tie plates and bars, different whistle posts and switch stands with targets. I don't know if they still make it, but it gave instructions on how to make it function with piano wire. 

[narrowminded]

So you did and I read that post - just did not make the connection.
My apologies.
Al

Please don't apologize!   I was just teasing a little and wanted to make sure folks knew the easy way.     That mention was buried at the end of a post with some other stuff and was EASY to miss.  I put it there so folks who were following the issues I was raising could very simply (no formulas required) do their own numbers and realize what they were up against. 

Now that it's been brought up though, that is a VERY useful number at the workbench especially for the math challenged but also for the experienced folks.  It's just so EASY and only requires remembering that number and the simplest pocket calculator.   You can do anything you want with squares to circles, lever arms as this example was, circles to squares, etc.  I use it all of the time around the shop. 

Example: What square could I machine onto a piece of 3/4" round?  .75 x .7071 = .5303".  That would be the max with sharp corners.  From there you might increase your square size a little to have rounded corners and maybe a standard wrench size.  So with the window established and the next standard wrench size being 9/16", do it backwards from there using 9/16" flats to get the circle at the corners.   .5625" divided by .7071 = .7955" diameter.  .7955' - .75 = .0455,  divided by 2 = .022" diameter reduction at the each corner leaving a decent corner break.  Or if you wanted to use 1/2" for the square for some reason, still with rounded corners, maybe .01" per side, then do the numbers for 1/2" to get the true diameter and then subtract .02" from that to get the diameter that you need to turn the 3/4" down to.  See how that works and how useful it could be?

Even if you only remember the multiplier but don't remember whether to multiply or divide, just do one and make sure that the   answer follows logic.  If you know the flat you can also know that the corners will be some number larger without knowing what that number will be.  But it WILL be larger.  SO run it one way and if it's smaller, do the opposite.  Same with levers.  If you have a lever of a known length and it's attached to something that turns 90 degrees, with that number you can know what the linear travel will be.  It's the reverse of what we were doing here when we knew the travel but needed the lever so it's as simple as divide by .7071.  Pretty cool and so easy.

And now, with that understood, you can do all of those same things with hexes.  That number is .866.  Write them down inside a drawer or something.  If you're a putterer I promise you'll use them some day.   And they aren't ballpark but the real deal with more decimal places than any sane person will ever use.

[Maletrain]

One thing to remember when calculating the length of the crank arm to turn the indicator: lash.  The throw rod may or may not be very tight to the points.  So, it is the travel distance of the rod that makes the points move, not the travel distance of the points themselves (which is easier to measure), that determines how much you multiply by 0.707 to get the crank arm length.  For that matter, if there is much lash in the connection of the crank arm to the throw bar (e.g., ovesized  hole), that needs to be subtracted out of the throw bar travel distance, because that part of the motion won't transfer to the crank.

[svedblen]

And now, with that understood, you can do all of those same things with hexes.  That number is .866.

hexes ??? 

[C855B]

hexes ??? 

I guess sort of like a more mathematical "666", a curse upon the design.

... Thinking outside the box for illumination: how about painting the lantern "lenses" with flourescent red and green paints, then shining a UV "black light" on them from the side that the engineer sees.  That way, the only part flourescing would be the lens aimed at the engineer, and the other lens would be dark.  That would only work in the dark, but lanterns on real railroads did not seem visible in bright daylight, either.

And a test thereof:



This was with both a UV-LED wash from the overhead and a separate CFL UV light from the right, the flare you see on the dark version. Might be doable, trick is keeping it even.

[narrowminded]

hexes ??? 

Maybe I should have said hex shapes.   If you know the dimension across the flats and need the corners, or diameter and want to know what the flats of a hex shape could be on that round, that's your number.   Or are wanting to put a 6 hole concentric pattern around a center, that's the number you can use to dial it in with regular X/ Y coordinates, same as the square multiplier.  You might have to use some logic as once the corners and flats are known you may need to half a few of those numbers as that logic presents itself.  Try it.  It's fun!

This was especially useful in a regular old milling machine with just X/ Y tables.  No need to set up a rotary table which is another logical way to do this.  With just those two numbers you can figure hole patterns of 4, 6, 8, or 12 symmetrically placed holes, all things encountered with some regularity around machine work.  It's handy and is absolutely accurate.

[svedblen]

It's fun!

I'm sure it is 
Thanks for the explanation!

EDIT: And I should have recognized 0.866 as sin(60 degrees)

[narrowminded]

I'm sure it is 
Thanks for the explanation!

EDIT: And I should have recognized 0.866 as sin(60 degrees)

... and .7071 as sin of 45 degrees.  Very simple and handy around the shop.

[glakedylan]

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